A friend of mine is an RTA with YTB and attended the Travel Training in Arlington, TX last weekend.
It seems that half the day was devoted to Kim Sorensen talking about YTB. However, he refused to accept any questions because of his concern that "problems would arise from the questions." So what is Kim hiding that he cannot tell the people that essentially sign his paycheck?
The main training in the afternoon was Spring Tours and apparently they were not training; but telling the RTAs that they plan to train. They are planning on training RTAs to sell Spring Tours and they will have a webinar on November 18th.
Spring will be a hard sell since they are not USTOA members and consumers have no protection. Also, apparently the Spring alliance has irritated (to a degree) Globus, Trafalgar, and Collette who see them as a competitor.
One interesting tidbit did emerge from Spring Tours however. Apparently 131,000 RTAs were able to sell 48 packages to China. That is 48 out of the 1500 that were prepaid. RTAs you need to get on the stick!
The posts on this site are just getting lamer and lamer.
ReplyDeleteI think the response by KS to his group of loyal supporters is very interesting. I also find that RTAs really blew it with the much touted China tours....as usual with YTB there is more hype than reality.
ReplyDelete"The posts on this site are just getting lamer and lamer."
ReplyDeleteAs are the comments.
And really anonymous use something more original than anonymous. As if we care what a coward like you thinks....
ReplyDeleteWell John, seems you have done it again. You predicted major losses and you were nowhere in the ballpark....again. Mind you it wasn't huge gains in this economy but it was a gain despite the loss of RTA's (Actually probably not as much as you were hoping for either). So if recruiting is down, and profits are up ...... perhaps we sold more travel meaning more profits?
ReplyDeleteNow spin away!
Talk about spin???? ROTFL!!
ReplyDeleteSept. 2008 3rd quarter: (3 months)
Beginning number of RTAs: 131,572
New RTA's: 15,887
Deactivations: 32,815
Ending Balance of Active RTAs: 114,614
Sept. 2008 9 months: (Year to Date)
Beginning number of RTAs: 131,802
New RTA's 69,170
Deactivations: 86,358
Ending Balance of Active RTAs:
114,614
3rd Quarter 2008:
ReplyDeleteNet Revenues:
On Line Travel Store Sales and Monthly Fees:
$30,473,409
Travel Commissions and Services:
$8,014,502
Training Programs and Marketing Materials:
$2,677,641
Operating Expenses:
Marketing Commissions: $16,765,206
Travel Commissions and Other Costs:
$5,177,571
Net Income:
$326,636
September 2008 ending nine months(year to date):
Net Revenues:
Online Travel Store Sales and Monthly Fees: $97,786,861
Travel Commissions and Services:
$22,162,946
Training Programs and Marketing Materials: $7,954,049
Operating Expenses:
Marketing Commissions: $66,309,983
Travel Commissions and Other Costs:
$16,234,166
Net Income Loss from Operations:
-$3,429,229
I don't see travel sales comparing well with recruiting - again.
ReplyDeleteEddie,
ReplyDeleteRevenue from travel store sales (recruiting) was $30M or up 6.2%
Revenue from travel sales was $8M which was up 44%
Changing of the focus for sure.
Also Marketing comissions paid out was 16.7 million which was down 18.6% while the travel comissions paid out was 5.1 million or up 37.3%
And Net income was 287,999 following 2 straight quarters with loses, which is why the 9 months report a loss.
Also, the deactivation of RTAs was high at 32,815 more than likely due to some bad press and frankly making the focus more on travel is weeding out some of the bad eggs.
No spin, but YTB is in the right direction and all of you anti-YTB people should be pleased with the progress
Travel Commissions from Sept. 2007 to September 2008 (year to date) only incresed by $8,232,122,
ReplyDeleteyet, On Line Travel Store Sales and Monthly Fees increased from Sep. 2007 to Sept. 2008 (year to date)by: $28,755,643
Yup the travel revenues increased 60% in your example from the previous period and the travel store sales increased 40%. The travel revenue over time is and will continue to increase faster. Good night. Heading out.
ReplyDeleteIn PIOTB words......ROTFL!
ReplyDeleteThe Net Income for the 3rd Quarter is $287,999 which is down from the 3rd Quarter of 2007 which was $2,149,491 therefore representing a loss of $1,861,492 or -86.61% !!
ReplyDeleteYear to Date for 9 months to Sept. 2008 The Net Income is -$3,429,229 down nine months in 2007 to September Year To Date which was $1,644,273
representing a loss of -5,073,502 or -308.6% !!
Travel revenues increased 60%??? Where??? Please point that out in the SEC Fillings. It's not there!
ReplyDeleteSorry 59.1%
ReplyDeleteTravel commissions and services 22,162,946 17.0 % 13,930,824 14.5 % 8,232,122 59.1 %
forgot to mention that YTB's current assests are $26,840,227(year to date and last year through December 2007 they were $40,770,116.
ReplyDeleteand
YTB has cash and cash equivalents currently of $588,886 and last year in December 2007 they had $1,730,570
and
YTB's income from Operations in the 3rd quarter of 2008 is $323,636 and in the third quarter of 2007 it was $2,187,552
Their income loss this year to date is -$3,429,229!!!!
The happy news, is that they have 434,302 in Apparel in their inventory to sell! lo
Gee guys, I'm in the middle of writing a blog post about this for next week. Couldn't you wait a bit? :)
ReplyDeleteSorry.....just wanted to share the news.... been waiting for months for it... I am sure your blog will be more put together and organized than the few figures I threw out there from the SEC filings anyways, and will have some decent conclusions as well...... but I will stop now.
ReplyDeleteDarn, the plane is being sold, how will they get to the recruiting meetins?
ReplyDeleteActually, FM and Josh, if you take a close look at the numbers compared to last quarter, you will see that you are DOWN. The only reason that you are seeing any type of pluses on the report is because there aren't those 2 ill advised total ship charters that the old fart wasn't able to fill, but still had to pay for, and the salary saved by laying off 25 people in Wood River.
ReplyDeleteYou've lost 16,958 RTA's (131,572 at end of Q2-114,614 at end of Q3).
Under Net Revenue, you have loses in several areas:
1) Online Travel Store Sales & Monthly Fees--Down $2,880,655
2) Travel Commissions & Services--Down $805,315
3) Training Programs & Marketing Materials--Up $410,738
4) Other--Up $1,377,276
TOTAL--DOWN $1,897,956
ytb paid out less in commissions, both to their REPS and RTA's, took MORE in depreciation, spent less on marketing, and of course the administrative (legal) cost took a HUGE jump, up $7,458,057. If you add back in the salaries of the 25 laid off people, it would add up to more than the $326,636 in income from operations, I'm sure, and that would be a negative.
There is also a line in the explanation section on net revenues about how "the revenue recognized actually increased due to the recognition of previously deferred new store sales from periods with higher volumes of new store sales." In other words, they cheated, and didn't report some sales in other quarters, and then just added it into this quarters report when they saw it was going to fall short.
All in all, it is just as predicted, when you crunch the numbers, when compared to last quarter. And, as mentioned previously, there is an income LOSS of over $3M for YTD. Seems like if ytb were on track to sell $1B in travel this year, there wouldn't be a loss. Hmmmm, wonder where all that money is going?
Come on Ains you know that Josh and FM are math challenged and not the brightest crayons in the box. YTB MO is recruiting people with reading comprehension problems and math deficiency issues so they can easily manipulate them and get them to swallow their propaganda.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing, absolutely amazing, how you guys can manipulate numbers to make them mean what you want! Bottom line is we made a profit despite all that is going on and we are not ANYWHERE NEAR what you all were predicting as what the losses would be. Now, on with your spin!
ReplyDeleteYeah, FM, a profit ONLY because ytb laid off people, and didn't do grandiose things like 2 whole ship charters.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you had a "profit" of $287,999 with 114,614 "sales" people. That averages out to $2.51 per person. Wow, REAL impressive. If I were you, I'd be VERY proud of the fact that my average share to the bottom line was only $2.51.
As I stated above, compared to last quarter, ytb's NET REVENUE is DOWN. What part of that is it that you don't get? And, overall for the year, ytb is in the RED to the tune of $3,429,229. That means they're LOSING money! How is that a good thing? No one here is manipulating anything, FM. The numbers are what they are. All you see is that "+" sign, but you don't make the comparassion to last quarter, nor do you look at the YTD numbers.
Whatever Ainsworth. Again, fact is, they made a profit when you all were squealing like witches around the cauldron in anticipation of the huge losses you were predicting. And now since that wasn't what you were expecting you are having to reach back to the last quarters numbers so you can be right. And when you compare the past numbers you act as though those down numbers were somehow unique to YTB. Heard about the recession? And what's also amazing is the fact that the numbers are in the positive for this quarter AFTER the effects of the CA suit had a chance to set in a lot more. But, whatever. We knew there was no way in hades that anything positive would, in fact, be positive in the critics eyes.
ReplyDeleteOnly a complete fool would see that a business losing 86,358 of it's employees/members in nine months, because they quit, being $3,351,570 in the hole, having stock that is currently worth 40 cents a share and that last year at this time was worth $1.87 a share, having only $588,886 in on hand cash reserves and the year before had over 3 times that amount on hand, pissed away millions on a statue of foam that the city of Hammond now does not want any longer having looked at the upkeep and placement cost for it, that touted to the world that they would sell a Billion Dollars in travel this year, having two class action suits against them, having two AG's suing them, having other AGs investigating them, having lost IATA, selling off their assests, the laying off of employees at their headquarters, being in the hole by $114,352 for restricted cash reserves that is used as a reserve for credit card processing, Board Directors fleeing, Board Directors and the Owner selling off their stock options in huge dumps, and having nothing but negative press all over the the place as something positive.
ReplyDeleteThe real effect of the AG's suits, the class action suits, and other events, will not be even fully revealed in its complete impact until the 4th quarter.
Did I mention that these financials continue to prove what all the lawsuits are saying? That YTB makes the majority of their monies from the sales of websites, the monthly fees on those websites and the monies generated from selling crap to it's members and NOT from the sale of travel?
Forgot to mention that YTB's main source of loans Meridian Bank (owned by two of their board members) shut down by the Feds (the first bank to close in Illinois in 7 years) and being investigated for the ify loans that they made!(Meridian Bank had been under a cease-and-desist order sine July because of, among other things, unsafe and unsound banking practices) and that they had been undergoing an audit since January and one of the huge loans that Meredian had made to YTB was being paid back in interest only and during the audit, YTB was required to heft up $500,000, refinance the remaining $2,000,000 balance of the loan and make real payments (including principle and interest).
ReplyDeleteYeah, this all such positive news alrighty!!!
"having two AG's suing them". Who is the second? Making up crap as you go PIOTB.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, FM, whatever. If you study the numbers, you will see the ONLY reason that ytb made a profit this quarter was because admin costs were cut. Those cuts were in the form of letting people go. Laying off employees. Firing them. Not paying them anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe monies brought in from the sales of travel stores is down, the monies brought in from the sale of travel is down, etc. Of course we reach back to last quarters numbers, as well as last year same quarter numbers. That's how you know how a company is doing financially. You compare quarters and YTD's.
As I said, FM, ANY company that has 1 positive quarter, where the total amount that they make is $287,999 with 114,614 "sales" people is NOT a good thing. I honestly don't know where you took your economics courses at, but hopefully you didn't pass the course if you think this is good. I would be willing to bet that that $287,999 didn't even come close to paying all of the salaried people in Wood River their salaries this past quarter. If it did, it means that those people are only making $640 a month (if there are 150 people on salary there), and how much you wanna bet the old fart alone takes home WAY more than that?
I also knew that someone was going to bring the "recession" into this. Lemme tell you something about that. I was on the phone yesterday with CO Vacations, and in the conversation I had with the person I was talking with, he asked me if I was staying busy, and said that their phones were going non-stop, and they were taking bookings like crazy. Now, that's just one vendor who is doing well. I would bet that other vendors are doing well to boot. Just because YOU'RE not getting bookings, doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.
ReplyDeleteThe Ca. AG has filed suit, the Illinois AG is investigating, and working with the Ca. AG. "We have an open investigation," said Natalie Bauer, a spokeswoman for Attorney General Lisa Madigan.
ReplyDeleteBauer would not say when the Illinois probe began, but said it has been open for "a while." Her office has received 90 complaints about YTB." So I made one error in that the Illinois AG has not filed suit yet!
The Better Business Bureau of Eastern Missouri and Southern Illinois also has been digging into YTB, said president Michelle Corey. It has received 90 complaints in the last three years, 40 in 2008, typically from people trying to get a refund of their $449 joining fee.
"For the most part, people are telling us they felt deceived by the company, primarily about their potential earnings," she said. "After getting involved in the program, paying up front and receiving their packet of information, what they received was different than what they were promised."
So does it look any better to have a State AG investigating you and joining in with the CA. AG's investigation and lawsuit? Does that help YTB or you in anyway dear ANON??? Does it mean that a suit by Miss Madigan is not forthcomming?
Interesting that you did not bother to address anything else in my post! What.... no rebuttals to all the rest of it???
Does this make YTB more attractive to you ANON?
ReplyDelete8/29/2008 11:17:00 AM Bermuda Sun
"Fraud cops look at Furbert's firm
But little chance of legal action because our laws lack teeth
Fraud cops have built a dossier on Wayne Furbert's controversial travel scheme, which continues to attract members here despite being dubbed a scam in the U.S.
Experts within the Bermuda Police Service are convinced YTB (YourTravelBiz) is a pyramid scheme and would like to shut it down to prevent people losing money. Fraud detectives went as far as asking Mr. Furbert to discuss the company with them, after which they warned him that it may breach investment laws, the Bermuda Sun understands.
However, detectives have not passed a file to the Department of Public Prosecutions (DPP) because Bermuda's antiquated laws are badly equipped to deal with companies of this type. In California - where laws have been sharpened over the years to deal with ever more sophisticated marketing scams - YTB is being sued for $25m. In his lawsuit, California Attorney General Edmund G. Brown Jr. said that he intends to prove YTB is "immensely profitable to a few individuals on top and a complete rip-off for almost everyone else."
Sources with links to the DPP told the Bermuda Sun that fraud experts on the island are in full agreement with the AG in California. However, past attempts at prosecuting pyramid schemes have stalled because Bermuda only has generic laws in relation to fraud. Former UBP leader Wayne Furbert believes that around 700 people - more than one per cent of the island's population - have paid at least $500 each to join YTB since February, when he imported the scheme from the U.S. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that the total membership could be far higher, with existing members recruiting new investors by the day."
Several vendors I've been talking to here at the Leisure Travel Conference have said 2009 sales are already up compared to 2008, and they are anticipating record-breaking numbers for 2009. Doesn't look like the recession is damaging the industry overall, but certain agencies specifically ... some have already closed their doors in the last few weeks, and others will follow. YTB may or may not be one of them....
ReplyDelete