Saturday, December 29, 2007

More Things I Have Learned

My last post covered some of the things I have learned in the last few months. Here are some more:

  • I learned that most MLM folk do not understand the concept of a petition
  • I learned that while Carnival Cruise Line's net profit fell 14%, Royal Caribbean's increased
  • I learned that most MLMers have no clue what the the Director of Hotel Operations does
  • I learned that most suppliers seem to place more value in quantity than quality...for now
  • I learned that some folks in the MLM world are unaware there is a difference between CLIA and IATAN
  • I learned that cruisinman's sources do not tell him the truth
  • I learned that nothing happened on October 15th (and I was not surprised)
  • I learned that there is a big push to sign up before the end of the year in order to avoid the need to sell pesky travel to earn the perks
  • I learned that most YTB folks will not do anything without the "Coach" "pulling the trigger"
  • I learned that many friends and family of YTB RTAs will be getting cruise certificates for Christmas and birthdays this year--even if they don't like to cruise
  • I learned that "The Coach" is not too original--more on that later
  • I learned that RTAs purchase brochures from YTB when they could get them for free from suppliers
  • I learned that the MLM Mantra is "Tell everyone that comes withing three feet of you about your business opportunity"
  • I learned that Bentley Motorcars really does NOT offer a Cocaine White color--it was all a lie
  • I learned that several agencies are interested in travel MLM companies and are actively watching them

54 comments:

  1. Correction...Coach doesn't always "pull the trigger"...sometimes he just "calls the play"...like Brian Billick.

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  2. Yeah, Cocaine White is not an official factory sanctioned color choice ... it's gangsta slang.

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  3. Ah.."Gangsta Slang".....thanks--that ties in the Yale to Jail and Penn State or State Penn recruiting angles

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  4. yeah yeah yeah more of the same stuff this is getting boring. The hens have nothing more to cluck about. YTB has beaten them down---

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  5. The travel industry is no different than many others. Some hot shot comes in stirs the pot and leaves it worse for wear. Peoples Express int he airline industry. AL Williams in the insurance industry. Primerica in the financial service field.

    The CEO of CitiCorp was canned for the whole Primerica fiasco--a spinoff of AL Williams from what I hear.

    These network marketers are looking for a fast buck. They will get it. They are ruthless, do not care who they take down in the interim--their friends and families are the first targets. They show their relatives how much money they are making (don;t say it is off of them) and then when the relative does not make it--they blame the relative or friend for not trying hard enough.

    It is nothing more than an organized chain letter and what they do is to tell you the reason it did not work for you is because you did not mail out enough of the letters to begin with.

    It's all hype. So if anyone is reading this--run fast. THe only ones that EVER make any money off of these schemes are the head honchos in the main office and a few of the people that joined up early.

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  6. Dear Mr Bedford,

    You are of course absolutely right.

    However a lot of these gamechangers, whether they survive or not, do have a beneficial effect from the consumers point of view.

    You can see Expedia and Travelocity, I know you hate them too, improve daily and provide better service to remain competitive.

    Happy New Year

    Xpdatravel.com

    Bou

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  7. Actually, Expedia, Travelocity and Orbitz are traditional business models operating online. Very similar to what Dell used to do as well as Gateway. Actually Expedia just purchased a Cruise only RETAIL company and are opening stores across the country.

    Network marketing firms on the other hand prey on the kindness of friends and family. It is particularly dangerous in travel since they do not control the product (I do not believe YTB is buying anything wholesales and reselling it). It is even more dangerous when you consider the paltry margins in the travel industry. I saw a show on AMerican Airlines and they only made a few hundred dollars on a single flight!

    So, when the commissions are reduced or if people stop traveling or slow down, the old fashioned agencies stand a chance, but I am afraid the network marketing will crumble.

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  8. Mr Bedford,

    An interesting link

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/309243/cfos_embrace_online_travelbooking/

    I guess you call that traditional agency business model the too?

    I have tried AMEX and Carlsson Wagon Lits as corporate travel agency's and generally found them wanting.

    The airline margins are low because the industry is inefficient, operate obsolete equipment, do not outsource enough and are generally decades behind the rest of the high tech industry.

    Ever thought of that?

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  9. Please, bouwou, if you're going to cite a company, get the spelling of their name correct. It is Carlson Wagonlit, not Carlsson Wagon Lits.

    Now, bouwou seems to be a prime example of someone who has joined YTB, has not made any money from it, and yet will still defend it to "the death". And they wonder what we are talking about when we use the phrase "drinking the kool-aid". Here is a blog entry that bouwou made on 12/26/07, go see what I'm talking about.....http://ytbornotytb.blogspot.com/

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  10. I think the reason that the YTBers that haven't made any money go to such great lengths to defend it is because it makes them feel better about joining YTB in the first place. If you watch all the videos and read the recruiting materials it looks like you should make a big pile of money with YTB even if you do nothing at all. But that is how MLMs make money-by getting people to sign up for $495 and pay the monthly fee. I think we can all agree that YTB does an excellent job with marketing to new recruits and "selling the cocaine white bently dream".
    There is a great deal of money to be made in the travel industry and a lot of way to go about making it. However, selling a travel website doesn't benefit the consumer or make you a travel agent. That's the reason that this blog exsists in the first place.

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  11. At one point, we owned a martial arts school. Many would sign up for a year and then bail out after a few months. They usually never told us--probably because they were embarrassed that they did not stick with it.

    We never took attendance, and when they would realize that we were charging them each month and they were losing money...they would call and cancel.

    I see some parallels here between this and YTB.

    Someone said that there is always "an exciting announcement" only if you go on the Birthday Cruise. Attend the XYZ show and be the first to hear the "exciting news". There is always a promise of riches around the corner--the proverbial carrot dangling in front of their noses.

    True with most businesses there are goals, but in most businesses there are benchmarks that are met along the way. I don't see any with YTB. There are benchmarks, but they are movable. Stick it out a few more months and we will be in Canada. No one else can sell an Olympic package. Come hear what bonus we are giving our first Level 7 Director--who happens top be a personal friend of Tomer's!

    There is always something much grander on the horizon, but very little in the here and now!

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  12. "If you watch all the videos and read the recruiting materials it looks like you should make a big pile of money with YTB even if you do nothing at all."

    I have stated here numerous times that YTB is NOT a get rich quick thing. It is a business, and just like any business... if you do nothing... you get NOTHING! If you do a lot, then you will receive what you are worth... which is a lot!

    Here's another bit of info about the integrity of Coach Tomer. The people in the main office work for hourly wages. Coach decided that this year he will pay out millions in Christmas bonuses to them because it didn't seem fair that the RTAs in the field are being paid all this great money (the ones who work) and the office staff don't receive such a large bonus.

    YTB has also made donations to childrens charities. Has your travel agency done that? I think not!

    When was the last time you received a bonus greater than a few hundred dollars??? Most likely never!

    Hey, Coach Tomer will be in Tampa Florida on January 15. Why don't you come down and speak to him face to face?

    As far as being a close personal friend of Tomer goes... you don'ty have to be a Director to do that. Even before you reach Director, you becoma a member of Coach's Corner, and you will receive Coach's own personal number which you can call anytime! BTW... All the times I've called, he did answer.

    As far a s Level 7 director goes, he reached that stage by building his team... just like I am doing... and those above and below me.

    After all this... there are things you still don't understand... and probably never will.

    Every week, i'm getting checks in the mail. Some are travel commissions. Some are 50% matches from those in my downline. Some are from people in my downline signing up other people. some are the 4% residual. then at the end of every month I also receive a $2000 check on top of everything else.

    YTB has about 160,000 RTAs. That's not that many people. It's only enough to fill 2 football stadiums! A single town has more people living in it! what i am trying to say is that YTB is still on the ground floor level as far as joining goes. EVERYONE has the SAME opportunity! If one enters the business and does what he/she is supposed to do, then he/she will be successful. If he/she does absolutely nothing, then he/she will receive absolutely NOTHING!!!

    It's not rocket science you know.

    BTW... yes, we are opening our doors to Canada in January, and I personally have 4 people up there ready to join! in the second quarter, I have 5 other people in the UK ready to join!

    It's also been announced that YTB is also going to enter Germany and I didn't have to go on a birthday cruise or special meeting to find this out! It was e-mailed to me... directly to my inbox.

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  13. So YTB has run out of options in the USA? So they have to outsource to other countries to stay afloat with their recruiting efforts?

    Yeah sounds like a company I want to do business with. Eventually your going to run out of people.

    There is no way YTB will be able to keep control of people outside the company when they can't control the people they have now. Disaster is looming, and I can't wait to see it all fall!! It's going to be a fun to watch!

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  14. Many travel agencies (and I include myself in that) routinely make donations of money, time, and travel to many worthwhile charities. As a matter of fact, I know of one agency that donates a portion of EVERY sale to a charity. So do not speak of which you do not know.

    RTAs making "all this great money". Again, I am seeking a definition of "great". The last numbers YTB provided showed them earning a few cups of coffee a week. So what is "great"?

    Are you saying that YTB issued over a million dollars in Christmas Bonuses to it's employees? I think I am going to call bullshit on this one. When you are showing just over a million in profit after 9 months (for the first time ever), you do not give it all away in Christmas bonuses. Maybe he gave them some shares in stock(Makes sense with the recent SEC filing) which will be lovely to wallpaper a bathroom with. But if it was cash, are you saying that each employee received an average (yes there is that number that you all have so much difficulty understanding)of $5700. Again, I have to call bullshit.

    When my business is doing well, you better believe I take a bonus--and they are well in excess of a few hundred dollars. When it is not, I don't. In 2002 I did not take ANY salary and kept all of my people employed. But you are right, I have never received a bonus that would buy me a Cocaine White Bentley convertible.


    And finally, I agree that in order to succeed, you need to work. Any reasonable person knows that. However, that is NOT what is preached at the recruiting meetings. It is NOT what is alluded to in any of the videos or power point presentations. It is NOT what they preach at the Annual Conference. It is NOT what EAB says and he is the spokesperson for YTB. Everywhere I turn, it is get rich quick, travel like* the pros, write it off and recruit more people. The director at my meeting said "even if you don't like the business, sign up and then sign up people that do like it and make your money off of them." 'Splain that Lucy!









    *NOTE: Travel LIKE the pros. Notice they are not calling you pros...just letting you travel LIKE them. Think about it!

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  15. Scam--good point. That is frightening when they have Earl in California pontificating on YouTube and sending out press releases. Still are not sure how many cruises were sold or how much travel was sold in a year.

    Now they are bringing in foreign regulations and foreign currency? WOW--ambitious for sure, but...

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  16. When someone files a claim with the BBB that is usually the last step before litigation. The question is why were there claims filed in the first place?

    I am not saying that all traditional agents are on the up and up, but they are a bit more controlled than YTB. I have never had a claim filed with the BBB or any law enforcement agency because I did the right thing BEFORE being pressured into it.

    Sure YTB settled all cases. If they settled them and felt they were not at fault, why settle? Why did they refund the group in Baltimore? Because an expose on a network news affiliate is bad news!

    Travel is tough business and I am not surprised the agents from the old store signed up. Many when they leave that realm will go into a home based business selling travel. To be honest, many are just not that qualified or confident to go to a different career. Toss in a presentation touting the riches, perks and tax advantages, mix in a little "my company went out of business and I have Christmas bills to pay and I still don't have a job" and you have a perfect target for the YTB spiel. This person (with experience) has nothing to lose until she has to mail in that first month's rent on the website and finds that her monthly commissions seem to be far less than the $50. Toss in the realization that not only has she spent $50 a month for no return, she is also spending additional money to YTB for again, nothing in return. Remember RTAs like her have paid YTB $79 Million dollars in the last nine months and received only $9 million in return!

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  17. Proud--stop it. Everyone operates a little differently. Some do and some don't. Are you telling me that ALL YTB RTAs are doing that for non profits?

    And for the record, I have had a program with my corporate clients since 1998 where I meet with the CEO of our client's and mutually decide on a local charity to support. We encourage leisure booking from their employees and we take 25% of our commission and will jointly donate to the agreed upon charity. I have bought basketballs for the Boys & Girls Clubs. Computers for kids in public housing. Established a grant for a local Volunteer Center, purchased thousands of tickets to sporting events for disadvantaged youth and more.

    So, again, do not paint with such broad strokes.

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  18. Juhn, about the millions in bonuses given at the office... you can call YTB HQ yourself and verify this. It's true!

    as for YTBScam...

    The reason why YTB is going to Canada is because the company s growing! that's something you don't know about. I can't believe that such a sophomoric comment came from a so called traditional travel agent.

    the US market is far from running out of steam! There's still plenty of other "football stadiums" to fill. that's an analogy if you don't understand. I just don't want you to think that we literally fill up football stadiums with people... LOL!!!

    You are worried about 160,000 RTAs. I'd be careful if i were you. Keep that Bayer handy, because when we reach a million RTAs, you just might have a heart attack.

    Man, i tell you... i've been sick the past couple of days, and I swear that laughter is the best medicine. Once I got back on here and started reading the comments... i've been feeling a whole lot better!

    BTW... although i was sick, I still got on the phone and called the vendors arranging trips for 2 of my clients!

    I also set up a New Years cruise for another client at very short notice (last week)... 9 cabins... 18 people... set sail today!!! it's funny how i mentioned being sick, because the client just happens to be a Dr.

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  19. OMG it was millionS (plural) well there goes the profit.

    9 cabins...what line, what cruise? I don't believe you!

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  20. Yeah just call corporate and Coach will tell you he made millions selling travel, and then turned around and gave it right back to the company....BULLSHIT. Proud if you spew anymore BS out of your mouth, your going to cover yourself in seconds.

    I'm not a Travel agent in any way shape or form...not sure how many times I have to tell you this, to get it through your thick skull, but then again you did join YTB which explains alot. Your starting to sound more like EAB the longer you spew out the bs.

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  21. John,

    I guess we will see if he gave back millions (plural), when they release their financial information. Oh wait, we won't get that probably anyway.

    And if in the negative regardless of the reason, Proud will spew out something to the effect that it was the "bonus" that put them in the red...umm yeah right. It they make a profit, I guess its just more bs.

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  22. Have you ever noticed that all the YTBers on the message boards seem to have some sort of "inside track" with the people at the home office and know everything that goes on there? And they are all really tight with the coach? Gee they even let Earl write and issue press releases for them.
    I wonder if the YTB home office keeps everyone informed about what their RTAs are doing. Things like "Earl just bought a new web cam!" or " Metre just took her cocaine white bently in for a tune up." Or " the coach mixes blue and red kool-aid together to make green!".
    Yep, fascinating stuff there. You just keep on one upping us no matter what. No one else ever gives to charity or hands out employee bonuses but YTB. Blah Blah Blah

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  23. Anonymous,

    Thanks for the plug!

    You obviously do not speak French!

    Do you know the origin the wagon lits?

    The Americans F'cked up the spelling.

    I travelled on their railroads before you were even born!

    Peasant

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  24. Good God John,

    How on earth do you keep this up!

    They all seem to be the same morons with debatable intellectual stock on either side.

    Perhaps you get a lot of clicks that earn you money, or you encourage traffic to your travel site, but I tell you the posters here are wearing me out!

    Happy New Year
    Bou

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  25. The facts: YTB Corporate gave out triple Christmas bonuses to all of their employees in December. 55 of the long-term employees earned the top Christmas bonus of $6000.

    The YTB Directors pooled together and added an additional share for each employee. This is a fact and I was at the Red Carpet Day and witnessed it. There are now over 325 full-time employees at YTB Corporate so you can figure out the math.

    YTBScam . . . again, your ignorance is showing. Most MLM companies expand into International markets in the first 3-4 years and many before they are financially ready. YTB has been conservative on International expansion and Canada has been in the works for 2 years. It has absolutely nothing to do with running out of prospects in the US. Domestic growth will continue at a solid pace this coming year and at least the next few years to come.

    JF (and others) . . . I have been part of YTB for close to 5 years and I never heard of anyone talking in YTB circles about a "cocaine white" Bentley until reading this blog. You are quick to point out the few oddballs (sorry Earl) and their stupid statements and overlook the VAST MAJORITY of good people that are part of YTB. Your comments make for provocative print (just like the former Texas RTA that the internet columnist dug up for his LA Times/Chicago Tribune articles . . . his story was laughable) but they are not at all indicitive of the average RTA.

    I have RTAs that have been part of my Team for years and the large majority stay with this business and gladly pay their $49.95 each month.

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  26. Ibtravel,
    Thank you for chiming in and confirming what I've said. Also, tell them about the benefits of making "Coach's Corner" as I also tried to explain.

    John,
    As for the cruise, YES, I did book 9 cabins for a doctor. Because it was such short notice, not all the cabins were on the same level. I spent a few hours at the doctor's house on the phone with the cruise-line figuring out what the doctor wanted to do exactly regarding the cabins, because he did want certain pax to stay together relastively close to the same deck, because although the Dr. has been on a cruise before, none of his guests have.

    This was by far the most difficult booking I have ever encountered, because it was really a last minute decision. Aside from this one, the next shortest time frame between booking and actual travel was almost 3 months.

    Like I told you, I take my business very seriously, and my client's needs are #1 priority!!! I know how to get clients, and I know how to keep clients! I have gone the extra mile for eack and every one of them so far! I usually order some gifts (paid out of my pocket) that will be awaiting the arrival of my clients... whether it be a stateroom on a ship, or a hotel room.

    Check your oven! I think your crow is burning... LOL!!!

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  27. "Many travel agencies (and I include myself in that) routinely make donations of money, time, and travel to many worthwhile charities. As a matter of fact, I know of one agency that donates a portion of EVERY sale to a charity. So do not speak of which you do not know."

    Yes John, I too have donated money to numerous charities... along with helping a friend keep their house and get financially secure again.

    You missed the point i was making though. Aside from donations to charities, non-profit affiliations have gotten their very own travel websites (just like I have mine). The commissions earned by those non-profit affiliations go directly towards helping those in the community. What i was saying is that your company doesn't give non-profit affiliations their own wwebsites to earn commissions from like YTB does.

    I am speaking because I know.

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  28. "Travel is tough business and I am not surprised the agents from the old store signed up. Many when they leave that realm will go into a home based business selling travel. To be honest, many are just not that qualified or confident to go to a different career."

    John, she had 16 years in the travel business, and yes... with the same company that just recently went belly-up.


    "And finally, I agree that in order to succeed, you need to work. Any reasonable person knows that. However, that is NOT what is preached at the recruiting meetings. It is NOT what is alluded to in any of the videos or power point presentations. It is NOT what they preach at the Annual Conference. It is NOT what EAB says and he is the spokesperson for YTB. Everywhere I turn, it is get rich quick, travel like* the pros, write it off and recruit more people. The director at my meeting said "even if you don't like the business, sign up and then sign up people that do like it and make your money off of them." 'Splain that Lucy!"

    You went to some backwards meeting there John, and when you see that director, you can tell him I said so. At my meetings as well as the meetings of my collegues, we ephhasise that YTB is NOT a get rich quick thing! We explain that it does take a lot of work.
    No, we don't tell our prospects to sit back and get rich off our downline.

    I know tht this concept is very difficult for you to grasp though. We HELP our downline succeed! We do not take anything away from those in our downline, so there is absolutely NO "at the expense of others"

    You are thinking about corporate America where you have the president of a company making all the money while the people on the lowest scale do al the hard work... for minimum wage! That is a true pyramid!

    I wish that people would get out of that stinkin linear income thinking!!! In corporate, every new person who omes in is seen as a threat... competition to those who are already there. People jockey for rank... doing whatever it takes to kep the other person down. Do you know why it's called a "RAT RACE"? Think about it! Don't say it's not true, because I've been there and done that!

    How about working for a company where you are one of the top producers, yet because of financial concerns, they re-structure your salary... along with everyone elses? then they beg you to come back for the same pay when you left (no raise.

    been there and done that as well. My old boss still calls me and asks me to return.

    At YTB we all HELP each other! nobody's a threat or competition. We are all a team!

    It sounds like you neeed to lay off the kool-Aid... LOL!!!

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  29. Just some comments from me on the past several comments....

    The "oddballs" sought me out. I did not go searching for them. Miss Cocaine White Bentley was updating me from St. Louis on the hour when there were 25,000 people there. EAB sent me an email. Do you honestly think I would seek him out for interaction?

    I think it is amusing that whenever something adverse to the YTB mantra is exposed or brought up, it is automatically an anomaly. The disgruntled Texas RTA, the column in the LA times, the person in Baltimore, Earl, Metre Wishom, etc. Wake up people, the logical ones are the anomaly. Go read some of the stuff that is out there---start with a google of "YTB scam" and start from the top and you will see what is out there representing "your" company.

    As to the Level 3 Director. It is not my position to tell him anything. If it concerns you--you go tell him. His name is Donald Bradley and he is in the Atlanta area--you go find him.

    And on the presentation. For months I was told that I ought to attend one. Only then would I get an understanding of the program. This was at the urging of probably 100+ YTBers. Well, I did. And it merely confirmed what I thought. The room was loaded with ringers, the pitch was all about the perks, benefits and recruiting. Travel was barely mentioned. Seemingly ridiculous claims were made... So, I took you up on your offer, and here we are. Now what?

    THe last I heard YTB was up to 175 employees, but I will defer to the inside track on that since apparently you were aware of the bonus amounts and so forth. If any employee is reading...how comfortable do you feel with management letting nearly 160,000 people know about your bonuses? And as you can see, those 160,000 are pretty discrete and would keep that info confidential. Hell, it is like the spread of herpes--just tell one person and wham....

    "At the expense" of others, true perhaps by definition they do not "pay" you, but would you be earning anything if all of a sudden your downline stopped paying the $50 a month? You claim that corporate America is the largest pyramid scheme out there. You do not PAY someone to work for them--they pay you.

    And finally, as is typical, I called bullshit on the cruise. I asked for the line and the specific cruise and it was returned with a vague answer--well I made lot's of phone calls on someone else's phone and I was sick. SO come on, if you booked 9 cabins on a New Year's cruise--let's hear it....

    Ship
    Sale Date
    Number and class of cabins
    Booking date

    That should be VERY easy--hell, don;t worry about the class of cabins.

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  30. bouwou, I speak French, and it translates to "coach beds". What's your point? The name has been Americanized. You have a problem with that? If so, why don't you go back to Holland? You still didn't address the fact that you are a YTBer that has made no money, but are defending them with all your might. And, where do you get off calling someone a peasant? Maybe you should go to a mirror and look into it, and say this to whatever is looking back....."couchon". Here, I'll give it to you in Dutch, just so you get it......varken.

    Proud, you like to say that any and all meetings that someone goes to that talks about the "perks" and "make lots of money" are anomolies, and not how you do it, and that we shouldn't judge everyone by those meetings, yet when you have been challenged to name a time and place when you hold your meetings, so that one of us "traditionalist" could show up and see how you run your meetings you never seem to answer. Why is that? Could it be because that is truly the way the meetings are run and you just don't want an "outsider" there to catch you?

    lb, Metre Wishom talks about her "Cocaine White" Bentley all over the internet in her responses to various blogs. Just Google her name. Someone said that while "Cocaine White" isn't an official color, it is "gangsta slang". Well, most people equate "gangsta" to ghetto, and Metre is definetly ghetto, straight from the get-go. You'll see what I mean when you google her. She is another example, along with EAB, of Wood River not being able to control their RTA's. You all keep saying that we shouldn't judge YTB by these people, however these are the ones that are out there making all the noise, so these are the ones getting noticed. Wood River doesn't seem to be doing anything about trying to control them. 9 time out of 10, by not doing anything is the same as condoning their actions.

    Oh, and proud, one other thing. You seem to have been absent from the blogosphere for a while while you were sick. I guess that wonderful YTB health insurance wasn't all that, if you were sick for so long!

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  31. You are thinking about corporate America where you have the president of a company making all the money while the people on the lowest scale do al the hard work... for minimum wage! That is a true pyramid!

    Well, this is sort of like YTB corporate isn't it? There is a president (Kim) and other executives making big bucks off of lower paid individuals who do hard work.

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  32. The YTB Directors pooled together and added an additional share for each employee. This is a fact and I was at the Red Carpet Day and witnessed it. There are now over 325 full-time employees at YTB Corporate so you can figure out the math.

    So, was this a bonus in stock or in cash? As to the directors pooling together for an additional share, how generous of you. Not sure how many directors you have now...what a few hundred? At $1.00 a share and 200 directors, I am sure the employees appreciate the 53 cents. I am sure it really makes them feel like they are earning the same money that the RTAs do---well come to think of it....

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  33. Ok Proud, I'll take you up on your offer. If you can tell me where there is a YTB meeting this week here in central Ohio I will go. Then we will have something to compare John's experience to. Oh and I am going to invite someone from the Ohio Dept of Travel & Tourism to go with me.

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  34. It is spelled Cochon, so much for your French speaking ability.

    And I know peasants know a lot about pigs.

    My issue was with the fact that you chose to attack my spelling rather than address the issue I raised.

    Anyway I am happy that you posted a picture as a picture is worth a thousand words.

    I wish everyone did this.

    Bou

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  35. Bouwou -

    The company is "Carlson Wagonlit" - and it was originally from the German, not French - do a little background work, please.

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  36. Well not quite French OR German

    Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits et du Tourisme was founded in 1872 by Georges Nagelmakers, a Belgian, to market rides on railway sleeper cars (wagons-lits) of his own design. This culminated in the richly outfitted carriages of the legendary Orient Express, officially inaugurated in 1883. A network of Wagons-Lits travel agencies appeared in Europe in 1928.

    Carlson Wagonlit's origins in the United States date back to the country's first travel agency. Ask Mr. Foster Travel began with a souvenir shop Ward Grenelle Foster opened in St. Augustine, Florida, in 1888. As a child in New York, Foster had been hospitalized for tuberculosis. While confined, he developed a passion for travel literature. He became sought after for travel advice, leading to a career as the father of the travel agency in the United States.

    Foster started by publishing travel guides. During the 1920s, his travel agency grew to 70 offices in the United States. This era saw the professionalization of the business with the appearance of Foster Girls, who were dedicated to the travel business full time. Men did not begin working as travel agents in the United States until the 1940s.

    Paxton Mendelssohn of Detroit bought Ask Mr. Foster in 1937. Within a few years, the outbreak of World War II curtailed leisure travel. After the war, demand was great--so great that the railroads did not need to advertise with Ask Mr. Foster, so the agency began to switch to a commission-based system.

    Changing Hands in the 1970s

    Peter Ueberroth, future Major League Baseball commissioner, acquired Ask Mr. Foster through his Los Angeles travel company, First Travel Corp., in 1972. Ueberroth paid $1 million for the agency, which had 29 branch offices. He placed his brother, John Ueberroth, in charge of its expansion.

    In 1979, Ask Mr. Foster was sold to the Carlson Companies, Inc., which Curt Carlson had built up from a small trading stamp company to one of the biggest privately held firms in the United States. Ask Mr. Foster then had more than 100 branches and more than $100 million in sales a year.

    Carlson entered the travel market just as deregulation of the airline industry was getting underway. With their newfound freedom, airlines introduced thousands of airfares using complex formulas to make the most profit from every flight. Corporations with large travel accounts turned to agencies like Ask Mr. Foster Travel to find the best deals and to provide reporting of travel expenses.

    John Ueberroth remained with Ask Mr. Foster after it was acquired by Carlson and continued to direct its expansion. He eventually became president of Carlson Travel, which grew by acquisition through the first half of the 1980s, picking up Canada's P. Lawson Travel and leisure travel agencies Cartan Tours and First Tours. Carlson acquired a 70 percent holding in P. Lawson in 1983 and had acquired the remainder by 1992.

    Mixing Corporate and Leisure Travel in the 1980s

    By the mid-1980s, Carlson Travel Group had become one of the largest travel companies in the world by focusing on corporate sales. It had 600 offices and accounted for nearly half of Carlson Companies' 1986 revenues of $3.5 billion. The group's only near rival was American Express Travel Management Services. The company owned 18 agencies inside Neiman-Marcus department stores (Neiman-Marcus Travel Service) in addition to its Ask Mr. Foster units.

    Company head John Ueberroth was trying to replicate this success on the leisure side of the market. CTN began an associates program from U.S. agencies in 1984. The number of participating agencies exceeded 600 in 1990. Ask Mr. Foster acquired Don Travel Service Inc. in 1986. This regional agency based in New York had annual sales of about $200 million.

    Northwest and TWA's PARS computer reservations system was installed in 80 Ask Mr. Foster offices in early 1988. Carlson acquired Gelco Travel Management Service Inc., a unit of GE Capital, in the same year. Gelco, a $250 million travel company with 660 employees, was folded into Ask Mr. Foster.

    Going Global in the 1990s

    In 1990, Carlson Travel acquired a 76 percent interest in the A.T. Mays travel agency chain, the fourth-largest in the United Kingdom. A.T. Mays had more than 300 offices, more than 2,400 employees, and annual revenues of $576 million. It was eventually renamed Carlson Worldchoice. Mays was Carlson's first major overseas acquisition. A wave of consolidation had begun among travel agencies in the United States and United Kingdom.

    The Ask Mr. Foster name was retired in April 1990, replaced by that of Carlson Travel Network. The new name conveyed both the connection to the Carlson-owned restaurants and hotels as well as the existence of a global distribution network. Also in 1990, operations at the company were restructured into commercial and retail sides, while computing and accounting operations were centralized at its Minneapolis headquarters. Carlson had acquired a company specializing in travel management software, CompuCheck Corp. Carlson Travel Network's system-wide revenues rose 42 percent to $5.1 billion in 1990.

    Travis Tanner was named president of Carlson Travel Group, which included the Carlson Travel Network, in January 1993. He was returning to the unit after four years as head of Walt Disney Travel Co. Carlson Travel Network soon underwent a restructuring aimed at delegating more decision-making to local and regional offices. The unit had about 6,000 employees at the time.

    The next year, in March 1994, Carlson Travel announced the merger of its business travel operations with those of Paris-based Wagonlit Travel (Compagnie Internationale des Wagon-Lits et du Tourisme), a unit of the Accor Group SA, a French tourism and business service conglomerate that also owned Novotel, Sofitel, and Motel 6 hotels and car rental agencies. Accor was the largest travel and hospitality company operating outside the United States.

    A global travel enterprise, named Carlson Wagonlit Travel (CWT), was formed with annual revenues of $10.8 billion. This was large enough to re-take the industry lead from American Express Travel Related Services (TRS), which till then had been the largest travel company in the world with 1993 sales of $8 billion. Carlson's independent foreign franchises were not included in the deal. Carlson Wagonlit had 4,000 offices in 125 countries; 2,300 of these came from Carlson Travel. The combined operations booked 24 million airline and train tickets a year, plus seven million hotel stays and six million days of car rentals.

    The merger made Carlson Wagonlit competitive for large multinational businesses, such as GE, that were beginning to switch to single vendors for their travel needs. The merger created new possibilities for monitoring global spending trends for these clients. The process of integrating Wagonlit Travel's information systems with Carlson Travel's was a five-year endeavor.

    A London-based joint venture, Carlson Wagonlit Development Co., was created to develop markets in Australia, Singapore, and Hong Kong. Carlson and Accor agreed to each invest $45 million in the joint venture over three years.

    Carlson Wagonlit soon unveiled a branded Visa credit card for 85,000 of its accounts, intensifying its competition with American Express (AmEx). In September 1994, AmEx leapfrogged Carlson Wagonlit in size by acquiring Thomas Cook Ltd.'s North American operations. Carlson Travel president described the consolidation trend in Business Week: "In 1985, you had to be national. In 1995, you have to be global."

    CWT acquired Sweden's third-largest travel agency group, Resecenter, in October 1996. Resecenter had 1995 revenues of $90 million and 110 employees, compared to $13.3 billion for CWT, which had more than 20,000 employees.

    Expanding Online and in the UK in late 1990s

    CWT introduced enQuest, its Internet-based travel agency in September 1997. Around the same time, it rolled out Mercavia, an extranet for providing travel agents with information that included video clips.

    CWT's online debut lagged behind the Travelocity and American Express Travel on the Web by more than a year. The first online travel agency had been rolled out in 1995, and the field was already crowded, including offerings from Microsoft Corp. and other technology-based companies. However, CWT executives believed their bricks-and-mortar agencies offered unparalleled customer service opportunities.

    CWT continued to expand in Britain. It acquired Inspirations, a packager of summer holidays, for £42 million. In October 1998, CWT merged the British package holiday interests of Thomas Cook with its own UK operations. This tied it for third place among UK tour operators. The merger also included Cook's travel businesses in Canada, Australia, and India, financial services operations, as well as Carlson's Caledonian and Peach Airways charter airlines and the tour operator Inspirations. Thomas Cook, which was owned by Westdeutsche Landesbank, had annual sales of more than £23 billion. It had been founded in 1841.

    Jon Madonna, a former executive with the Travelers Group and KPMG Peat Marwick, replaced Travis Tanner as CWT CEO in late 1998. Tanner had left to join the Atlanta-based leisure start-up Luxury Travel Co. CWT was reorganizing around customers' needs, rather than geographical divisions.

    Herve Gourio, president of Wagonlit Travel at the time of the merger with Carlson, returned to lead CWT after the departure of Madonna in October 2000.

    Scaling Back After 2000

    CWT cut several hundred positions in early 2001 due to a softening economy. CWT employed 15,000 people around the world, including 6,000 in North America. About 200 telephone reservationists were let go. Airlines were also suffering from a downturn in the travel business even before the September 11, 2001 terror attacks and were reducing commissions to travel agencies by as much as 60 percent. Overall revenues fell 8.3 percent in 2001, to $11 billion, mostly due to a slump in the U.S. market, which was down 20 percent.

    In early 2003, Carlson Wagonlit announced a joint venture with China Air Service, the leading corporate travel management company in the People's Republic. A joint venture with the Japan Travel Bureau had been formed in 2001.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Well, bouwou, as there are different spellings for English words, depending on what part of the world you are in (such as "catalog" in America and in England it is "catalogue"), the same is true for French. I am in South Louisiana, where our dialect of French is a bit different than what is spoken in France. It seems your knowledge of linguistics is not what you think it is, and what you would like others to think it is. You will notice, however, that I did get it correct in Dutch.

    Yes, I posted a picture. At least my picture is a full on facial, and not a side view, as if I'm trying to hide something. At least I posted a picture, unlike many of your comrades in YTB. At least I use my name, unlike you and your comrades in YTB, who have to come up with either "cutsey" screen names, or just go by anonymous. And, finally, at least I am not, like you and EAB, trolling on the internet for a partner. At least you seem to have the integrity of being divorced before looking around, unlike EAB, who has a wife (or live in girlfriend, depending on the day of the week) before advertising.


    Now, if you will notice, I never said anything about your spelling. Someone else did. Learn to read posts correctly before responding and attacking someone. Go back and check!

    As to addressing the point you were trying to raise, how is someone supposed to do that when you don't give examples of the issues you had? All you stated was that "I have tried AMEX and Carlsson Wagon Lits as corporate travel agency's and generally found them wanting." Without specific information as to what problems you had, how is anyone supposed to address the issue?

    bouwou is atypical of a YTBer. When he can't come up with anything original, or factual, he falls back into the name calling. It's sad, really.

    ReplyDelete
  38. The language is French! period.

    They speak French in Belgium did you globetrotters know that?

    Nothing to do with homework, I actually traveled on many of them unlike you so called travel experts.

    Yea like one of my bosses used to say, "I spell it that way so it must be right"

    Again totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    This is fun

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  39. ***Sigh***

    bouwou, you're not the linguist you think you are. Go check with a professor of linguistics at your local university and learn something.

    There is a difference in the French spoken in France, Canada, Louisiana, Switzerland, and Haiti. There is a difference in the Spanish spoken in Spain, Mexico, and the various South American countries. There is a difference in the English spoken in England and America. There is a difference in the Portuguese spoken in Portugual and Brazil.

    For such a world traveler, you sure are ignorant.

    Again, I asked you a specific question in my previous post, and as typical of a YTBer, when you can't answer it, you gloss over it and try to keep the subject off topic.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Why is it that you guys cannot accept, that the YTB solution is the greatest thing since Travelocity to happen to people who are retired and spend over $10,000 per annum on travel?

    Do the math please.

    I am a business consultant running my own business, spend over $20,000on travel and used to book this on Travelocity. I now book it on my own website and get competitive rates and cash back!

    I have friends who have a small
    (100 people) security firm 75 of whom travel all over the country on a weekly basis and spend at least $100,000 in travel monthly! what is wrong with them booking their travel on their own website? Do the math?

    They pay $50 per month and get roughly $4000 to $5000 back per month? You call that a bad investment? Hellloooo!

    They recently moved from one of the better known Corporate Travel Portals to YTB and find the rates at least as good if not better.

    I rest my case

    Bou

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  41. Why is it that you guys cannot accept, that the YTB solution is the greatest thing since Travelocity to happen to people who are retired and spend over $10,000 per annum on travel?

    Do the math please.

    I am a business consultant running my own business, spend over $20,000on travel and used to book this on Travelocity. I now book it on my own website and get competitive rates and cash back!

    I have friends who have a small
    (100 people) security firm 75 of whom travel all over the country on a weekly basis and spend at least $100,000 in travel monthly! what is wrong with them booking their travel on their own website? Do the math?

    They pay $50 per month and get roughly $4000 to $5000 back per month? You call that a bad investment? Hellloooo!

    They recently moved from one of the better known Corporate Travel Portals to YTB and find the rates at least as good if not better.

    I rest my case

    Bou

    ReplyDelete
  42. oops I posted twice sorry

    anyway got to do some real work now

    ReplyDelete
  43. Bouwou said...
    Why is it that you guys cannot accept, that the YTB solution is the greatest thing since Travelocity to happen to people who are retired and spend over $10,000 per annum on travel?

    Do the math please.

    I am a business consultant running my own business, spend over $20,000on travel and used to book this on Travelocity. I now book it on my own website and get competitive rates and cash back!



    Yet, according to beowou's own blog, he hasn't made any money from his investment in YTB!

    And again, he falls back into typical YTB behavior. He tries to call me out on something, and when I provide him the information that proves him wrong, he skips right over it. Hmmmmm. Still hasn't given any examples as to why he found AMEX or CWT corporate travel services "lacking".

    Now, I'm off for a while. No work today, I'm enjoying the beautiful weather and getting ready to celebrate tonight!

    ReplyDelete
  44. I was told about setting up non-profits with their own YTB site at the meeting I went to...noone here has mentioned that YTB expects you to pay them ANOTHER $150 to be able to do that.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Not only do you not speak French, you cannot read English!

    Perhaps you cannot write English either, your bloggers profile seems a bit meager.

    I am referring to my own travel here. I HAVE received money back on my OWN travel, NOT on selling it to OTHERS YET.

    Wanting, means lack of service, bad rates, had to advise them on routings, generally not cost effective.

    Hey as you have nothing better to do why do you not do some more internet browsing, which you seem to be good at, and see how many big corporations I have been controller of that used one or the other AMEX or Carlson, most experiences were poor and I got rid of them.



    Bou

    ReplyDelete
  46. Temptress, it's not on my list, but i am looking into where Ohio meetings are. I will definately get back to you on this.

    Ainsworth,
    You just don't get it!
    Look at Ron Head and Rick Rickets. they started out just the same as all other RTAs. They are living proof that we, the RTAs do become successful! Go pick up a copy of SUCCESS FROMN HOME and you will see all the people who made it big just by joining YTB. Take of your blinders and put the KOOL-AID down!

    Not to mention... myself! in February, my home will be completely paid off! My credit cards which were maxed are at $0 balance. My Lexus was paid for IN CASH! My friend and his wife were able to keep their house thanks to me giving them money to catch up on their mortgage. I also booked them a cruise for March on top of all that! maybe this will inspire them to join YTB... maybe not. Their children had a great Christmas with lots of presents a tree, and a fully decorated house which I helped them with! Many other needy families as well as our troops overseas also had a great Christmas thanks to my own personal money which I have donated! How much did I donate to everyone? Just $70,000.00 (2 months of my pay) Makes a great tax write off... doesn't it??? Well, the money I gave to the friend, I can't write off, because it's not considered a ligitimite charity, but the other $52,000.00 I can write off. If I didn't donate, I would have had my house paid off yesterday, but I put the needs of others ahead of my own. When was the last time you were so generous?

    "I was told about setting up non-profits with their own YTB site at the meeting I went to...noone here has mentioned that YTB expects you to pay them ANOTHER $150 to be able to do that."

    This is the cost of a license to promote to affiliations.

    Amongst the affiliations I got into YTB are:
    2 churches
    1 radio station
    1 private school

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  47. Bou, evidently you didn't get the memo, but YTB is not supposed to be about personal travel, but about selling travel to others, supposedly. And going by by that information, you've done squat. How many companies have you worked for? Why have you had to move around so much? I always have to wonder at those that job hop, even those in "executive" positions.

    Proud, glad that you're paying off your mortgage. Question is, how long did it take you to be able to pay it off? I bought my house in 2003 and paid it off this year. Is your Lexus the first time you've ever bought a car for cash? I've always paid cash for my cars, including the ones I have now, all 3. I also have never had a credit card that was maxed out, and the 2 cards that I carry now are paid in full every month. So, who are you trying to impress? You've already admitted that the money that you're making is not in travel commissions, but from the money you make from having people in your downline. Everything I have comes strictly from selling travel. Now, when you can say that, and that you are doing all those things you're doing with money made from strictly selling travel, then those of us in the "traditional" community might have some respect for you. Until then, no, we won't.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Oh, and bou, you may not have liked AMEX or CWT, but someone sure does, because they're selling a buttload more travel than you are!

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  49. 1. i have had 3 jobs in my life. as a student, i worked at a supermarket. I then joined a firm, and then YTB. My old boss still wants me back, but isn't willing to pay me what i'm worth. the firm was a victim of pay restructure. so that the head honchos could make more money. My pay there was cut by 20%. I wouldn't have that. I stayed until I becme a director in YTB. By then, I was making what I made at the firm annually in just 2 months with YTB.

    As far as my home goes, I bought it while still at the firm... before the restructuring. It was a 15 year mortgage, and I will have it paid off in 2 and a half years come February.

    no, this wasn't the 1st car i bought with cash. it's the 1st car well over 30k I paid for in cash!

    As far as the credit cards go, my family had it's share of family emergencies especially with my son being such a sports fanatic! Insurance? the firm discontinued the insurance plan to cut costs, so I also had to get my own. This was all before YTB, and I was paying thousands to cover myself and my family.

    getting to travel:
    No, I don't make most of my money selling travel, but I do sell travel! I am serious about that part of the business!

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  50. I didn't realize the top part of your comment was directed to Bou. oh well, I answered anyway.

    Also, a man shouldn't be respected or disrespected by how he makes his money. It's what a person does with the money he makes that should be respected or disrespected.

    I find that donating to charities and helping others is a very respectable trait.

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  51. Well, proud, let's look at this. I retired in 2003, just as I bought my house, and only retained a client list of 25 people and only "work" when they call me. Yet, with those 25 people, and relying solely on the sale of travel, I have been able to pay off my house in 3.5 years, and in the past year and a half bought my 3 cars with cash, 2 of them over 30k. This could become a pissing match, but why should it. Life is about more than material things.

    I didn't say I didn't respect you as a person, or what you do with your charitable contributions. What I said was you won't have any respect in the industry until your entire income comes from the sale of travel, not from having a downline. There is a big difference.

    I'm pretty much done with this subject, because talking with some of you is like banging my head into a brick wall. I truly have neither the time nor inclination to do it further. Until next year!

    ReplyDelete
  52. "Well, proud, let's look at this. I retired in 2003, just as I bought my house, and only retained a client list of 25 people and only "work" when they call me."

    So, you have many days where you do absolutely nothing eh? You don't go out looking for new clients? I would... heck, i do do that!!!

    25 clients... wow! they must take about 10 cruises a year for you to make that money! Or do thay spend 364 days a year living in hotels away from their families???


    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that aside from paying bills, I also deposit money into savings and checking accounts. it would be foolish to think that all the money i make goes directly to my bills. If that was the case, i would have had my home paid off last year!

    ReplyDelete
  53. Proud and Ainsworth...the only fair way to settle this is to see who has the bigger penis. Apparently you both are all about one upping one another, so who is game?

    We know that your houses are paid for, you paid for your cars, you don't need to work, you both give to charity, blah blah blah.... the only thing we don;t know is who is hung like a horse and who is hung like a flea.

    YAWN

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  54. I don't believe ANYTHING proud says. all that financial boasting sounds like hot air to me. Just another case of the 'self reporting' exagerations. I now he/she wishes it were true...

    ReplyDelete