Friday, December 14, 2007

John Goes To A YTB Meeting


Well, many folks have encouraged me to attend a YTB meeting just so I know what the “real deal” is all about. Most of these folks are YTB people already in the program and insistent that without that experience, my opinions are worthless. So let’s toss that theory right out now. I have been and here are my opinions on the meeting.

The meeting was Thursday evening December 13th in Columbia, Maryland at the Hilton Garden Inn. The hosts were Marcus & Barbara Board and Greg & Carly (did not catch the last name). The main presentation was done by a Level 3 Director names Donald Bradley who apparently flew in from Atlanta for the presentation.

There were 22 people there which included the 5 presenters 13 RTAs. So, there were only 4 people new to YTB. The room was obviously stacked. This became obvious when the presenter would ask a rhetorical question “Now doesn’t this sound like a good plan?”, and the 13 RTAs and the remaining 4 presenters would all shout out their agreement in unison. Also when Donald Bradley was being introduced, in the middle of the introduction as they were going over his achievements, there were cheers, etc. It was obvious that a great deal of the evening was orchestrated.

The PowerPoint presentation was the same presentation I have seen at many websites. It was actually pretty old since it did include RCI and their brands as suppliers.

Donald was a great speaker and very persuasive. You can check out his website which is very well done at www.the3ceosonline.com.

I was not able to ask any questions. The room was so loaded with obvious YTB RTAs and Reps. For all I know they all were with YTB as they all seemed VERY friendly with one another and my friend and I were the only two guests. There was no charge for us, but RTAs needed to pay $10. I am guessing the idea is to either have the RTA bring people in and allow the Director to “close them”, or expose the RTAs to the MLM side of the business in hopes of signing them up for the other side.

I am composing my notes and some comments on the information presented, and will post it in a future post. I will say that there was very little information that was new to me. What surprised me was some of the anecdotes and comments. And not surprisingly, the meeting was nothing about travel---all about perks, benefits, and recruiting! I think attendance at these meetings ought to be required of all suppliers!

55 comments:

  1. It sounds similar to the meeting I went to...probably the same .pps pictures...did you see the chart with one person on top that spreads out as it goes downward? I know what it looks like...but it's NOT a pyramid! lol.
    I thought it was very strange that they didn't take questions at the meeting I went to, either. But honest answers wouldn't be as conducive to recruiting as bragging about the FAMS they said they were going to be taking.

    ReplyDelete
  2. And I keep reading about how YTB is two separate businesses...but the push is definitely to do both. I would think that anybody who falls for one falls for both.
    Are there really that many RTAs or are not trying to sell sites to get out of the $50 per month? Or are there that many REPs who are trying to sell a site that they didn't buy themselves?

    ReplyDelete
  3. They did ask for questions. Sorry if that was not clear. But I did not want to be the first out of the box and since it appeared that most people in the meeting were with YTB, I wanted to see if anyone else would ask a question--no one did.

    As for the chart--I Believe that slide was passed over very quickly. He was more about explaining how much you can make off of others.

    ReplyDelete
  4. First John says, "I was not able to ask any questions."

    Then later says, "They did ask for questions....I did not want to be the first....I wanted to see if anyone else would ask a question--no one did."

    Sounds to me you could have gone forward and asked some questions, but for some very strange reason, you didn't. You do recall saying, "I was not able to ask any questions."?

    How interesting. I'm sure if you reply to this, you will come back with the "but,..." word and statement like you usually do.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Perhaps the Oz lion needed a little more courage!

    ReplyDelete
  6. They definitely did not ask for questions at the meeting I went to.

    But I did ask why RCl dropped YTB and was told he didn't know but Coach says if you leave the program you can't come back, not ever.

    He was showing off his backoffice page with recruiting earnings so I asked to see the travel commissions page...and had to ask more than once. There was a BIG difference.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Sounds like the meeting my relatives put on. Pure fake. I had one relative cheering when asked if there was any place she would like to go. She cheered "Disney" like a 10 year old. This is a woman in her 60s...it was embarrassing. Their main objective for joining the travel perk and recruiting to get your money back.

    ReplyDelete
  8. One of the hosts introduced a friend of his who he had just recruited...it would have been more honest if he had introduced him as his employee. I found that out later...

    ReplyDelete
  9. But I did ask why RCl dropped YTB and was told he didn't know but Coach says if you leave the program you can't come back, not ever.

    That's what they say in Mary Kay too. If you quit Mary Kay you can NEVER come back. They make it seem like you were giving up your first born. Puleez lolol

    ReplyDelete
  10. Enjoy your sharing little "meeting note's" comparisons folks. The same babble went on back and forth about Amway 40 years ago. People calling them names and trying to do their best to discredit the company and the reps. But ya know, many of those people are now six feet under and Amway still stands. I imagine it will be the same with YTB. You disgruntled ones will fall by the wayside and..well, you know the rest. I just hope most of you want be bitter to the end. Life is short!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Actually, people who are bitter right down to the end usually never had a good life.

    ReplyDelete
  12. John - I do hope you'll share your notes with the various Vendors - espeially those whose logos, etc. are inthepresentation. I imagine they will either be happy and endorse it, or they will be pretty pissed and will make that known to YTB headquarters.

    Why would they continue to presnet a pyramid to illustrate their structure? that just seems kind of stupid after going on and on about how they are not a "pyramid scheme".... They should use a "tree" instead - then people wouldn't have the mental image of pyramid. Geesh, you'd think they'd have figured that one out.

    Hey!!! What about the very definitive statement from RCCL on Lisa Bauer's status?! Sure sounds like a PROMOTION to me! they are grooming that woman for bigger things.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous said...

    First John says, "I was not able to ask any questions."

    Then later says, "They did ask for questions....I did not want to be the first....I wanted to see if anyone else would ask a question--no one did."

    Sounds to me you could have gone forward and asked some questions, but for some very strange reason, you didn't. You do recall saying, "I was not able to ask any questions."?

    How interesting. I'm sure if you reply to this, you will come back with the "but,..." word and statement like you usually do.

    December 14, 2007 1:36 PM


    I did not say they they did not allow for questions. I said I was not able to ask questions. Basic English!

    ReplyDelete
  14. WNATED: JUST ONE HONEST TRADITIONAL TRAVEL AGENT I CAN TRUST!

    Travel agent sentenced on felony theft charge in safari trip case
    By Bethany Nolan

    December 14, 2007
    FRIDAY, MARCH 30, 2007
    14 Travel Agency Workers Arrested For Smuggling Illegal Immigrants
    FOXNews.com
    PHOENIX — Fourteen travel agency owners or employees were indicted on human smuggling and other charges, accused of selling airline tickets they thought would be used by illegal immigrants, officials said.
    ----------------------------------

    Daytona Beach Woman Arrested In $5,300 Travel Scam
    The Office of State Attorney and Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services announced today the arrest of a Daytona Beach woman for defrauding consumers out of some $5,300.00 in a travel scam.
    Charged with Organized Scheme to Defraud was Heidi Ann Bies, 37, the director of a travel agency by the name of Affordable Family Travel.
    -----------------------------------

    Travel agent could face federal charges
    Thursday, December 13, 2007, 11:11 AM
    by Matt Lehman, WSAU
    Marshfield police have turned their case against a rogue travel agent over to federal prosecutors. Marshfield Police Chief Joe Stroik says the U-S attorney's office in Madison will now consider whether to file criminal charges against Marcia Meshak The owner of Travel Pro travel agency is accused of defrauding 74 customers of at least $192,00 without setting up their travel arrangements. Stroik says investigators believe more individual cases of fraud are likely. Meshak was missing for about a week before police found her in Colorado.
    -----------------------------------

    TRAVEL AGENT THEFT
    December 12, 2007 by Brad
    Travel Agent Accused Of Business Theft In Sparta Now Facing Similar Charges In La Crosse County
    ----------------------------------

    A SPARTA WOMAN COULD BE TRIED IN TWO COUNTIES FOR ALLEGEDLY STEALING FROM CLIENTS OF HER TRAVEL AGENCY.
    LINDA MORGAN COULD PLEAD 'NOT GUILTY' LATER THIS MONTH IN LA CROSSE COUNTY FOR THEFT AND CREDIT CARD FRAUD. MORGAN WAS ARRESTED A YEAR AGO IN MONROE COUNTY ON SIMILAR CHARGES, BUT SHE HAS NOT BEEN TRIED YET. SHE'S ACCUSED OF TAKING PAYMENT FROM CUSTOMERS AT HER TRAVEL AGENCY WITHOUT BOOKING TRIPS FOR THEM, AND WITH USING FREQUENT FLYER MILES EARNED BY HER CUSTOMERS.
    -----------------------------------

    Briefs: Travel agent theft charged
    Published: 10/1/2007 6:23 AM
    A Des Plaines travel agent is charged with taking money for airline tickets yet never issuing them to two customers, police said. Jacqueline Soriano, of the 900 block of North Wheeling Road in Mount Prospect, is facing two counts of theft. Soriano, the owner of Jethro Manilla Inc., which police say isn't licensed to do business in Des Plaines, is charged with taking $27,284 for 18 airline tickets to the Philippines and $5,475 for three other international tickets, but never buying the tickets, police said.
    Travel Agent Indicted In Oprah Ticket Scam
    -----------------------------------

    February 20, 2006
    A Maryland travel agent has been charged with exploiting fans of TV talk diva Oprah Winfrey by selling them non-existent Chicago tour packages that supposedly included tickets to see her show.
    Terrance M. Hawkins of Temple Hill, Maryland was indicted on 17 counts of theft by a Prince George's County grand jury.

    ReplyDelete
  15. CTA in MD said "Why would they continue to presnet a pyramid to illustrate their structure? that just seems kind of stupid after going on and on about how they are not a "pyramid scheme".... They should use a "tree" instead - then people wouldn't have the mental image of pyramid."

    Did you know a large corporation is a pyramid? That's right. Lots of little people making little money to support the big money guys at the top? And diagramming it out, it builds like a pyramid.

    You guys complain about the MLM structure where the folks at the bottom don't have a chance to get to the top. This is true regarding the the big corporations. Chances are slim to none you will ever get near the top in this business model. But, in the MLM pyramid, everyone has an equal chance to make it to the top IF THEY DESIRE TO DO SO. Just like the corporation people, most won’t even try. BTW, in a corporation you are subject to layoffs and then you are kick out of the pyramid! Good-bye! In the MLM, you decide if you want to leave or stay, unless you are a crook and get terminated.

    Also, the capitalist political system resembles a pyramid. The bottom folks are city workers, city counsel persons, the mayor ect. Then you go up the pyramid being voted in to state government, governor ect. Then you all know the rest, right? Well all get to be president. No, certainly another slim to none chance that will ever happen.

    So here we have the three pyramids, all legal and similar but different.

    ReplyDelete
  16. My point Anonymous, is that if you don't want to appear to be a "pyramid scheme" you would avoid that imagery - adn YTB has been very vocal about not being a "pyramid scheme".... this is simply Marketing 101 - choose your symbols carefully. I made no note at all about whether "pyramid schemes" are illegal (which they are), etc.... I'm talking about marketing....

    ReplyDelete
  17. John said "He was more about explaining how much you can make off of others.

    John...as busines owners we should be ashamed of ourselves for making money off those who work with us. I hope those that choose to trade hours for dollars to earn a paycheck/commission don't picket and strike our businesses.

    ReplyDelete
  18. You're right Raymond. God forbid those agents that help those like John build their travel agencies wake up and recognize that in America they can start their own travel business with YTB for with a small investment and have the potential to earn more than John's compensation plan will ever allow.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Do you not believe in being in business for reasons other than making money? Is there not some sense of enjoyment in what you do? Yes, we all like to make money, but at what price?

    People put in an effort and they are rewarded fairly. This Director said "even if you hate this business, find someone that likes it and recruit them and earn off them".

    SO, as long as you are making money the methods in which you do it have no consequence? An I reading you right anonymous? So, if you say, decided to pay for a lunch for your team and then took their wallets while they were int he bathroom...that would be ok with you?

    The program I saw last night was all about working as little as possible, making money off of people below you and taking advantage of supplier perks.

    The fact still remains that when there are no more people to recruit under you---you are SOL!

    ReplyDelete
  20. NIchole--not sure if that was facetious or not, but I am not scared of agents leaving any traditional agency for YTB. While they may not be their own bosses and are unable to "fire your boss" and it may be a bit more difficult to take families on all these discounted and FAM trips, they are living over the poverty level. They are making more than $60 a month.

    ReplyDelete
  21. "My point Anonymous, is that if you don't want to appear to be a "pyramid scheme" you would avoid that imagery - adn YTB has been very vocal about not being a "pyramid scheme"."

    CTA, the imagery is what it is. It's the structured image of MLM's, corporate and government. YTB has a LEGAL pyramid strucutre. And the reason why YTB is very vocal about not being a "pyramid SCHEME" is simple as YTB is NOT a pyramid "SCHEME". If it was, it would be considered "FRAUDULENT" as shown in the statement below.

    "Pyramid Scheme: A FRAUDULENT moneymaking scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses with most people losing the money they paid in."

    BTW, the copyrighted YTB compensation plan protects against a collapse described above. I won't go into it, but YTB also has their well known Bill of Rights for the protection of the reps.

    ReplyDelete
  22. "Pyramid Scheme: A FRAUDULENT moneymaking scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses with most people losing the money they paid in."

    In YTB, people are recruited to pay others above them. Do you not earn 50% of the earnings of those below you? Do you not contribute 50% of your earnings to those above you? And when recruits diminish, would it not stand to reason that the payments to those upline would dwindle as well? And would not the newest folks have lost their money and earned the least--if any at all?

    ReplyDelete
  23. I just wanted to comment on John's statement, "The fact still remains that when there are no more people to recruit under you---you are SOL!"

    Yes, this has happened to many MLM's over the years. The founders of YTB know this and are working hard to increase our travel sales. Eventually, by 2010, and if..and I mean if, the opertunity sales cools, the company will be sustained by these sales. There are many successful MLM's that come to mind that have gone through this.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Sorry, I left out an important word.

    "if, the opertunity sales cools, the company will be sustained by the TRAVEL sales."

    ReplyDelete
  25. OK it is 2010. Recruitment has fallen off. How many RTAs are in the program? What are the annual travel sales for the company?

    ReplyDelete
  26. With YTB, it's NOT about keeping the bottom people at the bottom... as I have stated many times before. Instead, it is about helping others in YTB climb the ladder. I should know. When I started out, I was just a fresh RTA. Through helping others see and join the business, I have climbed my way to being a Director (yes I'm still and always will be an RTA no matter what level I reach). I also help those in my downline climb as well. I have one person in my downline who is just 17 people away from also becoming a Director. This is from me helping him bring people to join.

    Those in my downline (no matter where they are) are NOT my employees. They ARE MY TEAM! I care about and help each and every one of them any way I can! I have even traveled to other states to help those in my downline (people I haven't personally met before). Quite a few of them, I did get to meet personally at the Funshine East Travel Trade Show.

    I have even given up recruiting for myself to help any of my fellow RTAs below me gain people. In other words, there were times where I had some struggling RTAs. I had people approach me about how they could join YTB. I gave them the website of someone in my downline to join through. I still take care of making sure they receive the proper training they need... and also help them build their teams.


    Now, John also mentioned the "earnings chart" way back when. Now that John went to a meeting, I'm sure he has been informed about what it means.

    Those who are not in their "power Teams" and have not shared the business with others in the month of July 2007 escalading down to those who did share the business opportunity with others in July 2007.
    Amount Reps
    $1 to $50 5,080
    $50.01 to $100 1,109
    $100.01 to $200 585
    $200.01 to $500 123
    $500.01 to $1,000 8
    $1,000.01 to $2,500 4
    $2,500.01 to $5,000 1
    $5,000.01 to $10,000 0

    Those who ARE in their "Power Teams" who didn't share the business opportunity in July 2007 esclading down to those who did share the business opportunity with others in July 2007.

    $1 to $50 1,889
    $50.01 to $100 755
    $100.01 to $200 977
    $200.01 to $500 963
    $500.01 to $1,000 257
    $1,000.01 to $2,500 933
    $2,500.01 to $5,000 270
    $5,000.01 to $10,000 102
    Over $10,000 91


    Includes 94 YTB Directors receiving PowerTeam commissions, an average of $36,099.87 per Director.
    *** This is PER MONTH! Most Directors are Level 1 Directors... like myself, and keep in mind that this average was set in July. It's much higher now.

    This is from the marketing side alone.

    YTB helps people live their dreams! In a time where the Real Estate market is slumping with forclosures at an all time high... YTB is helping those who not only join, but also WORK... YES... WORK the buainess can be spared from the wrath of forclosure on their homes. People are actually able to live debt free lives!

    Juliet St.John was one of those people who sacrificed her own accomodations to better the lives of her two children. This was before she joined YTB!!! People, she LOST HER HOME, and was living OUT OF HER CAR so she could afford to keep her children in college. Her mom was also struggling to keep working in her weakening medical conditions (from age). YTB has not only made it possible for Juliet's own life to be improved, but the life of her mother (who no longer has to work because Juliet sends her lots of money). Juliets childrens' educations have improved because college tuition is sffordable for them. Jliet's daughter had a dream to be able to jump horses in the Olympics. Before YTB, that dream was cut short, and her horse had to be sold. Now, thanks to YTB, Juliet's daughter has 2 horses she is training for jumping... in hopes that she will make it to the Olympics. This girl is an excellent rider, and had been awarded many trophies in the past for her skill at jumping hoses. She was well on her way to reaching her dream with her old horse. Now, she hopes that her new horses will be ready in time to show off what she can do.

    This is just one of many true life changing stories... and it's all because of YTB! Now, if any of you have any compassion in your hearts... whatsoever, this story would have touched you. It may not change your mind about YTB, but it will give you an understanding that it does help people improve their lives!

    Even $1,000.00 a month could improve someone's life! It culd mean the difference between keeping a house... or losing it. It could change someone's zip code. It could even save a marriage! Most marriages end because of financial woes.

    YTB pays us to help people change their lives for the better!

    Corporate America IS the true "PYRAMID" You have the CEO at the top with his/her people below him/her, their people below them and so on. YOU are stuck at the bottom doing all the grunt work while the CEO makes all the money! You are working for someone else's wallet and have a slim to none chance of moving up. That is a PYRAMID! the person in the mailroom will always be the person in the mailroom. The janitor will always be the janitor.

    In YTB, a REP can become a team leader... than a POWER TEAM LEADER... THEN A DREAm TEAM LEADER... THEN...
    LEVEL 1 DIRECTOR
    LEVEL 2 DIR
    LEV 3 DIR
    LEV 4 DIR
    etc!

    You are climbing a staircase... not being stuck as a stone on some pyramid.

    Take a pyramid, and turn it upside down. Ths better explains YTB, because as you climb higher, you are also expanding on not only your team... but also your life.

    The more in your downline, the higher you climb to infinity!

    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
    ********************
    .******************
    ..****************
    ...**************
    ....************
    .....**********
    ......********
    .......******
    ........****
    .........**
    ..........* YOU START HERE!

    ReplyDelete
  27. It is highly unlikely that there will ever be a point of running out of recruits. I expalined this in another topic. Right now, there are only enough people in YTB to fill 1 and a half football stadiums! The football stadium near me holds a capacity of 80,000 people. If you put 137,000 people in one part fo Florida, you would have a town. if you put 137,000 people in NYC, you would have 2 or 3 skyscrapers.

    YTB is still on the ground floor level when it comes to recruiting! By the time YTB fills up... like it ever would, we'd be long dead! Of course, as people in YTB die (like everyone else) new people will be able to take their place. YTB is also expanding to other countries in 2008... starting with Canada and the United Kingdom.

    As I said before, people may fight YTB all they want, but they will not win.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Actually, in correction, Juliet's daughter's horses were "Cutting Horses". If anyone here has any aquestrian experience,they will understand what a "cutting Horse" is.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Proud said, "As I said before, people may fight YTB all they want, but they will not win."

    Right-on Proud!

    It's like a boxer trying to win a fight against the wind. He soon tires out. He realizes how futile it was. He grows old, withers, and dies,..but as for the wind, it blows on.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "but as for the wind, it blows on."

    Great analogy - MLM Travel and the wind. They both blow!

    ReplyDelete
  31. Speaking of wind, in the words of Jim Rohn, "The same wind blows on us all! The wind of change... the wind of despair... the wind of hope... the wind of opportunity. The same wind blows on us all! It is NOT the wind that determines our future... it's how we set our sail."

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous said...
    Great analogy - MLM Travel and the wind. They both blow!

    Very clever! Hey Anon...what do you do for fun on a Friday night? lol Let me guess. lol!

    ReplyDelete
  33. BBB®
    Serving Eastern Missouri & Southern Illinois
    15 Sunnen Dr. Suite 107
    Saint Louis, MO 63143
    314-645-3300
    www.stlouisbbb.org

    Additional DBA Names

    Your Travel Biz.com
    Y T B Travel Network Inc
    Y T B Travel Network of Illinois
    Rezconnect Technologies Inc


    Customer Experience

    The BBB has received several complaints regarding YTB. Complainants allege difficulty canceling services, obtaining refunds and contacting a representative of the firm.

    The BBB processed a total of 35 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.Of the total of 35complaints closed in 36 months, 28 were closed in the last year.

    ReplyDelete
  34. WOW! With only 35 BBB complaints, YTB practially walks on water compared to our target market competitor Orbitz.com

    Name: Orbitz
    Phone: (888) 656-4546
    Fax: (800) 520-0459
    Address: 500 W Madison St Ste. 1000
    Chicago, IL 60661-2559
    Website: www.orbitz.com, CheapTickets.com

    Additional DBA Names

    Neat Group Corporation
    Orbitz, Inc.
    Orbitz.com
    Lodging.com
    Travelport

    Customer Experience
    - Advertising Issues - Claims alleging print or electronic media advertised claims or practices misrepresent the service or product offer.

    - Contract Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor contract or agreement, work performed without authorization, or invalid contract.

    - Billing or Collection Issues - Claim alleging billing errors, unauthorized charges, or questionable collection practices.

    - Sales Practice Issues - Claims of alleged sales presentations made in person or by telephone that contain misrepresentations of the product or service, high pressure sales practices, failure to disclose key conditions of the offer, and verbal representations not consistent with written contractual terms or agreements.

    - Delivery Issues - Claims alleging delayed delivery of ordered merchandise.

    - Service Issues - Claims of alleged delay in completing service, failure to provide promised service, inferior quality of provided service, or damaged merchandise as a result of delivery service.

    - Customer Service Issues - Claims of alleged delay in completing service, failure to provide promised service, inferior quality of provided service, or damaged merchandise as a result of delivery service.

    - Customer Service Issues - Claims alleging unsatisfactory customer service, including personnel's failure to provide assistance in a timely manner, failure to address or respond to customer dissatisfaction, unavailability for customer support, and/or inappropriate behavior or attitude exhibited by company staff.

    - Guarantee or Warranty Issues - Claims alleging failure to honor the terms regarding guarantees or warranties.

    - Product Issues - Claim alleging a product does not meet the expectations of the complainant, including defective merchandise.

    - Refund or Exchange Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor company policy or verbal commitment to provide refunds, exchanges, or credit for products or services.

    The BBB processed a total of 1662 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 1662 complaints closed in 36 months, 813 were closed in the last year.

    ReplyDelete
  35. John said Do you not believe in being in business for reasons other than making money? Is there not some sense of enjoyment in what you do?

    Yes, I think we're all familiar with Not-For-Profits and other 501c organizations. All others are considered "For Profit" or deemed a "hobby" by the IRS. Of course there's enjoyment in building my businesses, just as you enjoy building yours.

    John said "Yes, we all like to make money, but at what price?"

    Come on John, you know this...your a business owner also. Simple: a price that is profitable yet competative with market demand. In regards to your competitors for your target market, what's your price? Do you command $20-$100 service fees for an airline ticket?

    John said "People put in an effort and they are rewarded fairly.

    Can't speak for YTB personally as I'm not in it, but it seems they are rewarded fairly. They earn exactly what YTB pays them...no more, no less. If they ever get dissatisfied with that, they can work more and give themself a raise.

    John also said "This Director said "even if you hate this business, find someone that likes it and recruit them and earn off them"."

    We both agree. I wouldn't condone that exact verbiage being used by a representative of my company either. However, in that same context, my neighbor once told me about how he and his wife once owned a lawn service and landscaping business. So busy doing the work themselves, they got burned out to the point they hated it. Given that was their only source of income they sub-contracted out all labor and payroll and merely managed and trained various crews. As such they were able to grow more clients and recruit more labor to the point where they were able sell it.

    John said "SO, as long as you are making money the methods in which you do it have no consequence?

    Sorry, it's not clear as to exactly what "methods" you are referring to that you feel YTBers use. The only methods that come to mind are those mentioned in earlier posts that were arrested for theft. One other method that I think is questionable is the one I mentioned earlier that's used by traditional agents. That is, charging clients $20-$100 service fee for making an airline reservation. Does vasaline come with that? That's not service rendered no matter if the client is aware of or not. In my opinion, that is taking advantage of them. Just like those other posting of crooked travel agents, that can be seen as theft also.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Since this thread has gotten away from being about YTB recuitment meetings and since I keep reading about how AmWay has been around so long...here's some info...and I CAN see the similarities...

    In the 1979 In re. Amway Corp. (93 F.T.C. 618) ruling,[7] the Federal Trade Commission found that Amway does not qualify as an illegal pyramid scheme since the main aim of the enterprise is the sale of product and money is paid only for business volume, personal and group. It did, however, order Amway to change several business practices and prohibited the company from misrepresenting the amount of profit, earnings or sales its distributors are likely to achieve with the business. Amway was ordered to accompany any such statements with the actual averages per distributor, pointing out that more than half of the distributors do not make any money, with the average distributor making less than $100 per month. The order was violated with a 1986 ad campaign, resulting in a $100,000 fine.[8]

    Amway and its American online incarnation, Quixtar have been controversial due to allegations that these companies are pyramid schemes or cults, despite the 1979 FTC ruling[5] that legitimized the Amway business. The case revealed that, as of 1979, most of the products sold by Amway were to the Independent Business Owners (IBOs) themselves for personal consumption rather than to retail consumers who weren't enrolled as IBOs.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Proud to be YTB said:

    Jliet's daughter had a dream to be able to jump horses in the Olympics. Before YTB, that dream was cut short, and her horse had to be sold. Now, thanks to YTB, Juliet's daughter has 2 horses she is training for jumping... in hopes that she will make it to the Olympics. This girl is an excellent rider, and had been awarded many trophies in the past for her skill at jumping hoses. She was well on her way to reaching her dream with her old horse. Now, she hopes that her new horses will be ready in time to show off what she can do.

    Then Proud said:

    Actually, in correction, Juliet's daughter's horses were "Cutting Horses". If anyone here has any aquestrian experience,they will understand what a "cutting Horse" is.


    I do have little experience with horses.

    My question is, how would you use a cutting horse in the olympics?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Shanghai Spring International Tours has front row seats for the Cutting classes in Beijing in the Summer of 2008.

    She and her horse can get to the Olympics for $899 and her mom can get a rebate of 25% to boot!

    Viva YTB!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Raymond...in response to your last post. Excellent post. John needs more people like you on his blog, that simply speak the truth without bias. Kudos to you.
    I do have my 2cents to put in here as well. I am in YTB full time and am enjoying every minute of it. I won't share my specifics about my downline, upline, sideline, commissions, travel bookings, etc., other than to say, that YTB is working just great for me for many reasons. There will always be those people who do not appreciate the Network Marketing business model, for whatever reason, and that is fine. If you don't understand it or don't agree with it, then don't do it...but please don't undermine the potential of the MLM/Network Marketing business model for others who do work honestly and ethically to build their business. I personally practice Educational Marketing both on the internet and off. The more honest and straight forward information and facts given to people the more they are able to make informed decisions.
    As far as the Travel Business...John and others seem to think that having Network Marketers in this Industry will give it a bad name overall. I disagree, as I believe the ones who will suffer the most in this business are those who operate in a dishonest fashion and with no integrity and will be the cause of their own bad name and not the industry as a whole. I have been on all the TA, MP and other forums and blogs and am ashamed of some of the comments, claims and downright rudeness by Travel Agents and Network Marketers.
    As far as this particular Blog being about John attending a YTB meeting....I have attended some that were horrible, and some that were outstanding. YTB gives us the tools to conduct meetings and presentations and hopefully the presenters use the most current tools and only speak the truth. My guess is that John will not have very many good things to say about the presentation he attended, since his blog is anti YTB and MLM's. My experience has been that people who, in general, are anti MLM's will see primarily the negatives and will concentrate on those. I do hope that John takes off his Travel Agent Hat and really looks at the business model as a whole, combining both the Travel Side and Network Marketing side and agrees, that for some people it is an amazing opportunity. Over 97% of people who get into an MLM fail. WHY? Because they either were expecting a get rich scheme (which YTB is not), they expected people to just come knocking on their door without working at it or their sponsor failed them, or the company failed them. This is a fact with any MLM/Network Marketing company. Since John is spending SO much time with his Down With MLM Travel company blog, articles and participation on forums, I would like to recommend that he take the time to try and arrange a meeting with Coach, Scott and Kim and have a serious heart to heart with them. This could be in conjunction with a Red Carpet Day. This recommendation is not to recruit you, John, but to help you get all the facts straight by going directly to the horses mouth. Only after you do that, will I have more respect in your opinions about how MLM's and Travel Mix. Please consider this recommendation for your own piece of mind. Respectfully...Be_Nice

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hmmm...interesting comparison of BBB reports between YTB and Orbitz. That certainly puts things into perspective between the two. I'm still a little speculative of any MLM though regardless of whether or not they have a better report than Orbitz. Can someone post where I can find info on a meeting in the Atlanta area. I would also like to attend a meeting and see what all the buzz is about.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I am not sure what the BBB reports say. It is hard to determine since Orbitz sells far more travel and has far more clients than YTB does. Additionally, as has been pointed out to me numerous times, Orbitz spends millions marketing to the public on television, online, and radio. So with that kind of exposure, I would suggest that by the numbers they would have more complaints with the BBB.

    With that said, I have to say that Orbitz is probably the worst of the big three in terms of customer service.

    Thanks for posting the comparison.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Interested(But Skeptical) My first recommendation would be to try and attend a Red Carpet Day at the Home Office. Then I would recommend what we call a CRTA Training Event and lastly a local presentation. The next CRTA even in Atlanta will be on Jan 26th, 9-4:30 at the Westin Atlanta Airport. I applaud you for checking it out for yourself!

    ReplyDelete
  43. The BBB reports mean about as much as all the posts about rip-off agents...they mean nothing...other than something to talk about other than the lame deal you're getting from YTB if you're not out recruiting a downline.
    Let's hear again about how long Amway has been around...long enough you'd think I would have met some Amway tycoons by now, but I haven't.
    Let's hear again how all corporations are pyramids...ok, but the arrows on the YTB chart are going in the opposite direction. I pay the people who work for me, they don't pay me in the hopes of earning a commission from sales.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous said...
    Shanghai Spring International Tours has front row seats for the Cutting classes in Beijing in the Summer of 2008.

    She and her horse can get to the Olympics for $899 and her mom can get a rebate of 25% to boot!

    Viva YTB!

    Anonymous - Can you show me where the schedule is for the cutting class comp. during the Olympics? I'm courious, I missed that on the schedule.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Cutting class leads to a career in YTB...I got it

    ReplyDelete
  46. John, this is Metre, please e-mail me at byebyeretailtravel@yahoo.com so I can send you pics of my car. I'm in Aspen BUT my SUV is saved in my phone. Also ARC does not issue a card, but our RTA card has our ARC number on it and that number is also our CLIA number as well. It was our IATAN too, but that is on a hold status. I CAN put my money where my mouth is. I am glad you went to a meeting, BUT you need to come to our meetings out here in CALI. I personally talk about all aspects of the business, including the THIRD side of the business which is the Non Profit Corporate side and is not part of the MLM side of the business. I also talk about all of the trainings we should take advantage of since we ae in the business of selling travel, so I think it is a matter of who does tghe meetings. We have 9 Directors right in our community and we all do the meetins the same. No Hype, just informative, and a great experience. We don't have applications floating all over the room. We thank everyone for joining the meeting and we ask everyone to get back to the person that invited them. OH most important you could ask all the questions you wanted and they woul dhave been answered. One of my Wall Street fellas is one of our guest speakers twice a month!!!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Proud said...

    "Actually, in correction, Juliet's daughter's horses were "Cutting Horses". If anyone here has any aquestrian experience,they will understand what a "cutting Horse" is."

    Actually, you were right the first time. They are clearly not cutting horses, but are jumpers. Watch your DVD again.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous said...
    Shanghai Spring International Tours has front row seats for the Cutting classes in Beijing in the Summer of 2008.

    Anonymous, thanks for clearing that up on the person really being in the jumping cat. vs cutting horse.

    But, as mentioned above you said you folks have front row seats for the cutting classes in Beijing.

    My question stands show me the schedule for that event since you already have the tickets through your partnership company. And, when did the olympic committee start Western cutting events?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Ah, yes, they are jumping horses. It's been a while since I watched that DVD. I'm no equestrian... LOL!!!

    Anyway, getting to the BBB issues, if you read the full extent, you WILL see that ALL the issues with customer complaints were resolved! Also look at the dates of the issues. They happened back when YTb still had the old booking engine that had bugs. The new one is practically flawless!

    ReplyDelete
  50. It is not flawless and it does not verify any information. I made a reservation for my dog and cat and put in a cc number with and exzp date of 2005 and it took the booking. I can just see Kitty Cat and Bull Dog getting on the cruise.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Metre/Bragger--

    Really, I am not impressed that you own an expensive car with a vanity plate. But if it means so much for you to send me the photos...please feel free. I have provided my email several times dating back to August when you started the ridiculous comments to me in your emails from the big show in St. Louis.

    I am sorry, I am not going to travel out to California to see your dog and pony shows. I have done enough investigating of the company and the MLM business model to know what I know. And on the off chance I missed something, I attended a meeting led by a Level 3 Director (what level did you say you were again?) which merely reaffirmed my opinions.

    But you said ARC card. ARC does not have a card. Again, YTB is putting out a message that they are providing credentials. At this time it is a credential that does not even exist in the real world. I am aware that in some cased the three numbers are ther same. But since IATAN has revoked your endorsement, according to the CLIA rules, your CLIA number will also change. I am not sure about ARC since ARC and IATAN have been at "war" for many years as to who issues the number--sort of a chicken or the egg fight.

    Rather than sending your car photos to me, why not put them up in a Photobucket account and just post the link. That way we all can be jealous of your success.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Interested (but skeptical) said...
    Can someone post where I can find info on a meeting in the Atlanta area. I would also like to attend a meeting and see what all the buzz is about.
    Interested,

    I happen to live in Atlanta and would be happy to get together with you to answer any questions you might have.

    Depending on where in Atlanta you live, I can also provide information about local meeting here in the Atlanta area.

    Please feel free to visit my profile to aquire information about myself and my contact information.

    Warm Regards,

    Doug Bauknight
    AKA: TravelPro

    ReplyDelete
  53. Enjoyed John's review of YTB's business overview. I would have been more interested hearing what a relative of John thought of the business model. We know going in, John is looking for bones to dig up.

    Shanghai Tours was left of your vendor list, this vendor and package, exclusive to YTB, is just an example of vendors how are knocking on YTB corp doors daily.

    I actually have no problem with John's rejection of our marketing model, it's not for everyone.

    Amyway, now nearly 50 years old,
    worldwide and expanding? This should not be according to John's review.

    BBB, who I've worked for, filed for BK in the Hawaiin Islands, just before I was hired on. They have their own issues...If you want to see a hard-handed recruiting method, check them out.

    RobertsResorts.Net

    ReplyDelete
  54. Shanghai tours is on none of the official Vendors lists put out by the IOC - it is also not a member of USTOA - yes, they've gone after YTB because they are illigitimate and are very, very hungry for the business!!!

    ReplyDelete
  55. "Shanghai Spring International Tours has front row seats for the Cutting classes in Beijing in the Summer of 2008."
    And exactly where did they get these, or any event tickets? They aren't officially sanctioned by the official Beijing website, the IOC or the US NOC websites to sell event tickets. It sounds like they might be selling them second had. If they are not officially sanctioned to sell event tickets, and if reselling them violates IOC or Beijing policies then they cannot guarantee that the tickets will be honored at the gate. And because they do not belong to USTOA clients have no recourse if event tickets they purchase are denied at the gate.

    ReplyDelete