It seems that not only was YTB the first company to think of putting the Internet and Travel together, they are the first to develop the concept of a "Traveler's Profile".
Yes, you heard it here first (well maybe second if you listened to their calls or visited this site)--YTB has an exclusive on the "Traveler's Profile". No longer will travelers need to constantly repeat the basic information and the not-so-basic information. No more forms to fill out. And to top it all off--it is automated! I simply cannot believe that no one has thought of doing this before 2009! Just imagine a concept where your travel agent can keep the following information:
- your name
- DOB
- addresses and phone numbers
- your passport information
- frequent flyer information
- car rental program data
- hotel guest program information
- itineraries
- payment profiles
- emergency contact information
Yes and to think that this is available exclusively to YTB Referring Travel Agents:
At, Sharnese Travel & Cruises we have a feature that eliminates all that hassle, making it easier than ever to plan your next trip- introducing The Traveler's Profile.Gosh, what will they think of next? I bet they will develop plagiarism as well. One particular post on that blog was completely lifted from another source without reference. I mean who could have thought about ripping off someone' s writing besides YTB? What do you think of that?
The Traveler's Profile allows you to create an individualized profile that is securely saved within the system. Each time you return to the site, your profile information is ready and waiting for you, eliminating the need to re-enter all of your personal data. This exclusive feature is an added convenience that sites like Expedia and Travelocity don't have. In fact, it is exclusive to Sharnese Travel & Cruises!
LOL Travel agents have been using travel profiles in the GDS systems since the beginning. Even the online systems have them..scary how little these people know about travel.
ReplyDeleteAlso I have an account with Expedia and Southwest that does the same for years..it just doesn't say 'Traveler's Profile'. Why do they think Expedia and etc...doesn't have it???
ReplyDeleteI guess we shouldn't be at all surprised that someone from YTB ripped off someone else's work and posted it on their blog as their own. And since their "agents" aren't really travel agents, it's also not surprising that they wouldn't know that any GDS stores a traveler's profile. I think the only surprising thing is that they are still in business.
ReplyDeleteWhen is that hearing in California again??
Why do they think Expedia and etc...doesn't have it???
ReplyDeleteBecause they do not know anything about travel, they have no education in the field, they purchased the "travel agent" name with $500. They have a website now and that makes them unique and this all powerful website is the beginning of online travel, the first to have profiles, the first to sell travel and toilet paper in the same keystroke. Simply clueless....SUPPLIERS PLEASE WAKE UP!
I think they simply repeat what is told to them--well I know that is what happens. I am also guessing that since most of their travel is self sold, that they were not travelers before YTB and never experienced what a real agent or an online agent like Expedia can do for them.
ReplyDeleteIt really just shows a huge amount of ignorance if you ask me.
"Also I have an account with Expedia and Southwest that does the same for years..it just doesn't say 'Traveler's Profile'. Why do they think Expedia and etc...doesn't have it???"
ReplyDeleteCan I assume that you speak for everyone in Traverus Lakeisha? You know, that other MLM travel agency that John and the rest of the gang here loves? If your answer is "no" then neither does even on RTA speak for all the other RTA's in this company. This person is no less excited about her business as a Traverus rep. But once again it's nice to see you jumping on the pile thinking that you are part of the gang. (sigh)
"I think they simply repeat what is told to them--well I know that is what happens."
The Drive-by's on this site don't simply repeat what is told to them? That's funny. What about those Traverus reps Lakeisha? John pretty much repeats St. Peter's words all the time.
"I guess we shouldn't be at all surprised that someone from YTB ripped off someone else's work and posted it on their blog as their own."
Seen the stuff that the Traverus reps have ripped off from John? NO? That's because of the fixation with YTB.
Firemedic if you want to bash Traverus feel free to do it on your own blog.
ReplyDeleteAgree John. I think alot of them have never travelled, or used a travel website prior to purchasing their own. If you honestly do not know that EVERYONE has traveller profiles, you really need to educate yourself on the product your trying to sell. The person really made him/herself look incredibly stupid to anyone who reads that.
ReplyDeleteLisa, I will say that when YTB switched to Convergent (from WCT) the ability to have these profiles was a huge selling point and emphasized in many communications and on many phone calls from YTB-HQ. Perhaps YTB is capitalizing on the relative naivete of the RTAs and just letting them think that they are getting something special. It seems to be a modus operandi for them:
ReplyDelete2 Fly Free Program Unique To YTB
YTB The Largest Seller of Olympic Packages
Aisle 19 Available only to YTB with an invitation
YTB brought together travel and the internet
YTB the largest seller of Carnival Cruises in the world
The list goes on...
Real Travel Whatever - I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were the moderator on this blog. My bad.
ReplyDeleteHe's not, but I agree! If you are looking to bash Traverus, there is a blog already set up for it here.
ReplyDeleteI am not bashing Traverus here John but merely pointing out the obvious that you only focus on YTB when your blog says "MLM's". So much so that when a Traverus rep chimes in, no one says anything to her. So much so that she conducts herself as one of the gang. John made the comment the other day that he talks about other companies too. Right. He only said that because he was getting a bunch of mileage from his post and he didn't want the people that were new to his blog to think he only focused on one company. But if someone only took about five minutes to read the rest of the posts, they could figure out where the obsession is. But if you are all about "MLM's" then what do you have to say to the Traverus rep that has chimed in today? I mean, here is what some of the people in her company is saying:
ReplyDelete"Become a Certified Travel Agent with Traverus Travel
Would you like take advantage of great discounted member trips, make an additional income, and learn how to keep more of the money you already make? Become a Certified Travel Agent with Traverus Travel! Traveus is a travel and lifestyle company that provides travel services to the world and natural health products."
I don't have a problem with what the person is saying here John. Do you? Can you take your fixation off YTB long enough to point out the fallacies of those "MLM's" or just continue with YTB? Didn't think so.
Dude, again, YTB is a major focus of this blog because they are so big and mouthy. They are also publicly traded so a lot of their info is available. What can't you understand about that.
ReplyDeleteWe do talk about other MLMs and they are all equal in my eyes. There will be a post in a day or so about another one to keep you happy.
But as to what she says, I do disagree with it, but how can I disprove it when nothing is available?
You do realize that all of the other MLMs are watching YTB very carefully. They are copying what is successful--seen a Traverus recruiting power point? They stole a lot of YTB's lines. But as YTB continues to sink, they all modify their programs so they are not in the same position. Who knows how it all shakes out in the end, maybe they will emerge as legitimate hosts? Maybe there will be a happy medium reached between MLM and TTA. But you can bet that whatever it is, it will be at the expense of YTB.
You do realize that all of the other MLMs are watching YTB very carefully. They are copying what is successful--seen a Traverus recruiting power point? They stole a lot of YTB's lines. But as YTB continues to sink, they all modify their programs so they are not in the same position.
ReplyDeleteAnd "they" say John doesn't understand the mlm business model.
Fireman sounds downright upset that this blog focus's on YTB. You should be proud that YTB is at the top of the manure pile! No one can match them for arrogance and bragging rights. No other travel MLM is as bad - yet. YTBs income is 85% from recruiting - and travel sales are so bad that they now have to offer to sell the kitchen sink to keep the RATS paying good money to HQ. We don't know for a fact that is true with Traverus, WV and ? but I'd bet they are recruiters before travel sellers as well.
ReplyDeleteAll Travel MLMs are dirty bags of wind. Including Letitias little scam.
Firemedic, it doesn't matter which MLM name you use. It's all the same crap. Make $10,000 a week. Travel like a travel agent. Travel free. Jesus runs the company. Blah Blah Blah. But with all the screw ups at YTB it doesnt' really allow for much time to look at anyone else.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny is that for some reason a lot of people in Traverus don't think it's really an MLM. Perhaps you've got time to look into them and explain why we should be looking at them more than YTB? What are they doing that's any worse than what you're doing?
Real Travel Whatever -
ReplyDeleteWhat an intelligent statement just like a sulky teenager. At least you are consistent.
Firemedic..I am speaking on the the topic itself not about TraVerus vs YTB. John, Ainsworth already know I'm with TraVerus.
ReplyDeleteRead the topic of discussion. I am responding as a traveler that has and account with Expedia and Southwest but yet the post John put up basically says that no one but YTB does this.
I pointed out that in fact they don't.
I'm speaking on an individual standpoint so get over it k?
The post was not about TraVerus nor was I here defending a point about Traverus. I am talking about the TRAVELER'S PROFILE statements.
Go ahead Firemedic, go start another blog about me just b/c spoke on my acct. All that does is show people that I don't have 'bash other company blogs.' like you do. You are real funny coming here and complain but you are doing the exact same thing.
KHolmes,
TraVerus is not saying they aren't MLM. We are simply stating that unlike YTB (til the AG) we already had training in place BEFORE anyone can do anything direct with vendors. All the stuff that YTB has implemented recently TraVerus was already doing since inception of te MLM side of it minus charging extra $$ for any kind of anything else.. Aside from the MLM leg, TraVerus (orginally TravelWorks) is a 26+yr old brick and mortar travel agency. Our corporate trainer is a 22+yr old former Virtuoso agent. We also have Member Trips and don't pitch FAM trips. I could go on but it's not about TraVerus. We don't offer unattainable bonuses, and for the most part (unless I see and I do say something) we don't make outrageous income claims, name drop and not arrogant (there are few but like i said if I see it I have no problems calling them out)
Carry on, this is about Traveler's Profiles and how no one in the world has it but your company Firemedic
Sorry for the misspellings, typing with one hand.
ReplyDeleteAnd FM, this is a public blog, I don't need your permission to post just because I'm with TraVerus and b/c you practically demanded me not to say anything else on John's blog or you woulnd't remove your false blog about me. Remember?
ReplyDeletei'm on a roll here...next time I'll gather all my thoughts first.
ReplyDeleteUnlike you FM where YTB is your end all be all of businesses, it's not the case with me.
Whether folks think TraVerus is a scam or not, I do travel often.I have things I'm working on regarding travel. I also do other things (non-mlm) so I don't eat breathe and live TraVerus like FM does YTB.
Not on John's blog to 'make friends' but offer comments when I feel like it. Now I'm going to bed. Everyone have a good evening, even YOU FM.
John said
ReplyDelete"I think they simply repeat what is told to them--well I know that is what happens."
How many different things could you pick out of Lakeisha's diatribe that are what the company says? Oh, sorry. Like Lakeisha says "I could go on but it's not about TraVerus."
Again Lakeisha, it's arrogant of you to come here and jump on the YTB dogpile when this blog is supposedly about how MLM is bad for travel. You are in a travel MLM but somehow seem to think you are somehow in the posse's good graces and then you get all defensive when you are called out on it. Do you really think for a moment that your company wouldn't be targeted next if YTB were not around? You are the one putting yourself out there so don't get too upset when you are being addressed by both sides.
Great blog remarks today. Rod is unhappy (again) with YTB and venting. Firemedic is on his usual rant and still hasn't answered my question from last week. FM, there is a show on VH1 called the Tool Academy. You should apply. If ever there was a tool, they broke the mold when you were manufactured and brainwashed. You're a tool, Firemedic. That's what you are, a tool. My apologies to Melvin Palmer.
ReplyDeleteThanks Moron! You professional travel agent you!
ReplyDeleteSounds like someone (firemedic) had got they panties all in a twist. Ya know, it's said that those that defend the loudest and hardest are the guiltiest of all. Discuss.
ReplyDeleteI don't post often to blogs but I've invested the time to reading all the comments here so I feel it's worth the extra couple minutes to comment.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about the owner of this blog but I wonder if they are against MLM all together. I say this because it is the only way I can make sense of a person who feels that travel and MLM don't mix.
The network marketing business model is just a form of distributing products or services, why NOT travel?
Firemedic...I am not a travel agent. Then again, neither are you. You're a tool.
ReplyDeleteFM, get a life.
ReplyDeleteYou don't read. I know how they feel about travel MLMs. Unlike you, I am learning the industry and work with them not against them. It's called respecting the industry and those who have contributed to it. They don't have to like what I do, but I do respect them. I speak to others outside of this blog, and maybe if YTB wouldn't tout that they are gonna put TTAs out of business and all the other remarks maybe there wouldn't be a blog.
I am over the whole your stuff is bigger than mine. Again I used to be in YTB, so once in a while I have something to say. I'm not here with the MOST posts on JOHN's blog either.
You have no clue what I do everyday and if you did you'd be eating crow and everything else.
Laura-Before you start spouting off on something which you have little knowledge of, I suggest you start reading this blog at the beginning and you will find out why. Then I suggest you read scam.com. Here is another source to read: pyramidschemealert.org
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/home.html
And, while you are at read the CA AG suit in full about YTB.
http://ag.ca.gov/newsalerts/release.php?id=1596
Laura, the reason that MLM's and travel are NOT a good mix is because 99.6% of the people in travel MLM's don't have the specialized knowledge that is required to work in the industry, and they have no desire to learn anything about the industry.
ReplyDeleteLakeisha, while I totally disagree with your choice of "hosts", from what I have read of your posting elsewhere, you have definetly shown that you ARE all about learning about the industry, and I applaud you for that. I just wish that you would look around for another agency to affiliate with, as I think you are doing yourself a disservice by staying with an MLM. If you would like to contact me, I would be more than happy to help you explore other options.
Thanks for pointing that out to me about YTB Traveler's profile not being "exclusive" Perhaps, I should have used "user friendly"? I wish I had the time that you people have to defend YTB, but I am busy booking travel and helping others. However, YTB pray for people like you - The Dream Slayers. Thanks for drawing traffic to my site! Hopefully, you'll pick up a few tips such as Building Relationships, Try not to waste your time bashing MLM, YTB. Donald Trump & Robert Kiyosaki both stated "if they had to do IT all over again, they would be in Network Marketing. Those men are successful, they can teach you how to be the same. Thank God that I also learn, from the naysayers and dream slayers. I learn WHO I do not want to become. -BTW You can become a Travel Agent with YTB, it does'nt requires a MBA. Just like any industry, one would need and want to take the time to learn about their industry. You DO not become a Travel Agent overnight. California hearing will not stop us from helping others, start their own business. The world is much larger than California. Anyone that's in MLM are much smarter than you they understand how to leverage their time and income. MLM Industry have made more millionaires than any other industry in the world! It's not about the company or the product. I sell myself. I've helped hundreds of people. That's what matters to me. YTB is a vehicle, that's it! So keep spending your time bashing YTB and the others, I can't and I won't take it personal. Life is too short. Keep your job, you would'nt make it in this industry. With all the rude comments, on both this blog and mines one would think you tried MLM but failed because "you" do not have what it takes. In regards to the comments comparing YTB & Traversus. We are in the same industry. What's wrong if one choose to model the other? Successful people models others before them. I wish the best for anyone in this Industry! Proud that people are talking about YTB & MLM just as they did with Shakelee, Amway, Primerica, Mary Kay, Avon (just to name a few) Yet, those companies still exist and continue to help others. This is all the time you'll get from me. You are a waste of energy. Praying that you become more productive. My phone is ringing, time to sell more travel stores and help revolutionize the industry!
ReplyDelete"However, YTB pray for people like you - The Dream Slayers."
ReplyDeleteLet me get this straight, YTB is praying for us because we are "dream slayers?" Yet, YTB scams people out of their money, uses underhanded tricks to recruit and is owned by a self proclaimed minister who is little more than a con artist. What is wrong with this picture?
A Real Travel Pro, you seem like a very angry person and I feel sorry for you.
ReplyDeleteMy comment said nothing personal about anyone but you chose to lower yourself and make assumptions about me not having any knowledge of the industry. I don't assume that the person who writes this blog doesn't know about MLM. Referring back to my comment, I said, "I wonder if they are against MLM all together."
I don't usually waste my time on hateful blogs whose major purpose is to discredit someone or something. I also don't believe everything I read. I look for unbiased opinions and reviews of products or services rather than listening to those who are disgruntled by the ill-effects of a successful alternative. As for your other recommendation, I am already a member of the forum at scam.com but I apply the same reasoning when considering any comments I read there.
I agree that there are plenty of people who are in YTB because they thought they could travel for free and become rich. This problem however is not unique to YTB. Unfortunately, most MLM companies attract people who are willing to believe outrageous claims and then blame others for their lack of success. I don't diminish the issue of those people making the claims however, it's a vicious cycle and one that likely will not end very soon.
It hurts the entire network marketing industry to even bother with people like this but the unfortunate thing is that most people in MLM don't know how to identify good prospects and people who are serious about their goals and actually know how to achieve them. I do think that the problem lies with most companies because they still teach outdated and unsuccessful methods of talking to friends and family which is one of the many reasons MLM has a bad reputation. These people usually have no business whatsoever going into any business for themselves, especially MLM.
The fact is that if you did have knowledge of the MLM industry, you probably would feel differently about it.
I am a Rep with YTB and I'm an MLM enthusiast. I love the industry itself and I feel confident that though this will certainly hurt YTB, they won't go down because of it.
I understand that the problem for most "real travel agents" is that they don't believe that YTB RTA's sell travel. That doesn't mean that it doesn't mix with MLM. What it indicates to me is that YTB needs to put more focus on travel training which is what's its’ doing now. It's definitely a little late for them but at least it's a step in the right direction.
If the purpose of this blog is to suggest that MLM and Travel don't mix, I would recommend doing a little more research on the history of network marketing before inciting all kinds of negative comments and emotions by people who are probably not thinking for themselves.
I wonder what the problem would be if YTB offered all the training available to "real travel agents" and didn't give any travel credentials prior to having completed that training.
ReplyDeleteWould there still be blogs out there insisting that MLM and Travel don't mix?
Hmmmm...
Laura-I am not angry far from it. Just disgusted that you are drinking the Kool Aid and believe all the drivel you have been spooned fed. There is enough evidence that support our claims including the California Attorney General's lawsuit, suppliers terminating relationships with YTB. Did you know Norwegian Cruise line terminated it's relationship with YTB?
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for you because you want to believe so bad in the magic and the fairy tale. 80% don't make any money. That is FACT and in the SEC filings.
And, let's keep God and religion out of the discussion. It does not belong there.
A Real Travel Pro...
ReplyDeleteOk, if you say so. Your comments just seem to be driven by emotion rather than logic which is why I suggested you might be angry. I do still feel sorry for you because you can't seem to make a comment without insulting the intelligence of someone else.
I haven't been spoon fed anything, I refer back to my previous comment on how I determine what I believe is the truth.
I agree with you that 80% of people don't make money in YTB but, (I haven't checked the statistic recently) I believe the failure rate in MLM as an idustry is actually higher than that. What does that tell you?
It tells me that individual businesses aside, most people in the MLM industry don't make money, even though there is plenty of money to be made. Again, referring back to my previous points about the kinds of people who should not be involved with MLM, I feel this has much to do with the lack of success in any MLM company.
I'm confident that my point has been made but if you find some other reason to childishly insult me, please feel free. It's of no consequence to me as it just makes you look bad.
And yes, I was well aware that NCL has terminated their relationship with YTB. But thank you again for pointing out something to me that I already knew.
ReplyDeleteI should correct myself in my assumption that A Real Travel Pro accepts network marketing as a viable business model.
ReplyDeleteMy statements above are only true if you recognize, as Donald Trump and Warren Buffet have, that MLM is a legitimate model for conducting business and moving products or services.
Sorry about that A Real Travel Pro..
Sharnese it's amazing to me that you would have the guts to come over here and offer to pray for one of us. You've stolen someone else's work and plastered it on your blog as if it was your own. You have affiliated yourself with a company that clearly has some major ethics issues. But you keep drinking the kool-aid.
ReplyDelete"My statements above are only true if you recognize, as Donald Trump and Warren Buffet have, that MLM is a legitimate model for conducting business and moving products or services."
ReplyDeleteIf you read pyramidschemealert.org it refutes this as does other sources. This is something Coach made up to keep you sending in his checks. As to insulting your intelligence I question whether you have any being involved with YTB. The evidence is overwhelmingly against them and refutes everything you have been told. That is LOGICAL! Where is your logic. Again, you want to believe so badly in it, the dream, the riches. You have convinced yourself it will happen. As I said I feel sorry for you.
YTB is a recruiting company. 85% of their income is from recruiting. YTB is not a travel company - travel is used to recruit for profit.
ReplyDeleteSure some travel is sold, generally to the recruit. I'd venture that 90% of RTAs have no interest in training or professionalism in this industry.
Dear A Real Travel Pro,
ReplyDeleteI shouldn't be surprised that you still feel it necessary to blatantly insult someone when you know next to nothing about them. If you truly feel justified in this behavior, I sincerely hope that you seek some counseling soon.
I did go to the site you referenced, since I'd overlooked your other recommendations previously.
In doing less than 5 minutes of research on this non-profit organization PyramidSchemeAlert.org, I found another site that suggested it's founder Robert Fitzpatrick is just as much of a fraud as you claim Coach to be.
Check out: http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/mlm_fraud.html
My point is that for every so-called expert on any subject, there is always another who knows "the real truth". And if you choose to believe everything you read, you won't really learn to discern the facts for yourself. I hope that you don't get your news from the National Enquirer too.
I know that I'm not the most learned person about any subject but I certainly don't jump on any bandwagons without doing research and deciding for myself - based on as much information as I can acquire - what I choose to believe as the truth.
I have also read the news release regarding the lawsuit. What I was able to determine LAST YEAR when I read it first, was that unless they’ve made some mistake, YourTravelBiz.com doesn’t even sell travel – at all. While I have not done extensive research on the subject like you undoubtedly have, I seem to recall that YTB made this organizational change over 3 years ago. I don’t know that for sure and I’m sure you can correct me if I’m wrong.
As it is now, YourTravelBiz.com only sells websites so, of course, all the income to that business will be in the form of commissions from those sites. What’s interesting about this is that they pay absolutely nothing for simply recruiting someone into the business, I paid nothing to become a Rep and thus, my sponsor earned nothing. I don’t see how Gerry Brown missed that unless he just doesn’t understand it.
YTB Travel sells travel and travel related products. Therefore, all income produced by this business is associated with travel.
These are two subsidiary companies part of the whole of YTB International Inc, which also consists of a third subsidiary – RezConnect Technologies.
My comments, save this one, have been much more in defense of MLM and Travel and much less of YTB. That is where I stand. I don’t believe that YTB is infallible and I acknowledge that they have and will make mistakes as will ANY business. What is important at this point is how they choose to respond to it and only time will tell what their fate will be.
I am not insulting anyone. You refuse to believe it. You must be new to YTB and still in the honeymoon stage. Believe me it wears off real quick when you have offended everyone you know by trying to recruit them and keep throwing your money in a bottomless pit. If you think you are saying anything new you are not. It's all been hashed out and re hashed by innocents just as yourself who want to believe so badly. It's the same tired arguments. Do they give you a scrip to read or what? Every YTB person I have ever encountered says the exact same thing.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I truly feel sorry for you that you are so gullible and bought into. Post again in 6 months and be sure and let us know how you are doing. Ok?
Boy, for somebody who doesn't "usually waste my time on hateful blogs whose major purpose is to discredit someone or something", Laura sure has spent a fair amount of time posting today. Wonder why that is. No, not really, just foolin! She probably just doesn't have much else to do, especially sell travel, since it's a well known fact that the majority of YTB agents don't sell much, except to themselfs.
ReplyDeleteI'm not new to YTB or MLM and I didn't go chasing after my family and acquaintances to recruit them into this business.
ReplyDeleteAs you have no real points to make with your last comment, I have to agree with A Nonnie Mice that I have wasted WAY too much time here trying to discuss anything with such a closed minded group. Thank you A. Nonnie Mice for helping me not get sucked into such an unproductive activity.
I don't sell travel, don't try to and don't pretend to, I don't even have a travel website. My time is spent raising my family, reading and learning as much as I can about this great industry and working my network marketing business.
I hope that all who have contributed to this blog post have something else to occupy their time as well.
Cheers!
Ah - Laura doesn't sell travel - just like 90% of her ilk with YTB. Yet, Laura feels travel and mlms go great together. I feel she should stick with juice or whattever she is hawking at the moment. She may know and love MLM but she's lacking in knowing the travel biz.
ReplyDeleteSo, if you don't sell travel why are you here? Why do you even bother with YTB then? Because it's the down line that's why. Well, good luck with that. LOL!
ReplyDeleteThank you for the compliments boys! It was a pleasure debating with you all but I don't expect we'll do it again any time soon. I wish you much success in all your endeavors!
ReplyDeleteLaura,
ReplyDeleteThe issue isn't MLM in general .. there are some out there (non-travel) that are very successful, run ethically and with integrity. The problem is this: those MLM companies own their products, they control production costs, therefore they have complete control over setting profits and commissions. Jewelry is a great example. A $25 piece of high fashion jewelry probably costs cents or maybe a couple of dollars to have made. So the company can easily afford to pay 50% to their distributors, offer generous hostess benefits, and still make a nice profit for the corporate office. And these companies can be successful without paying a penny for recruitment....you only make money off your downline when they SELL PRODUCT. You don't get any part of their sign up fee, only commission BASED ON SALES.
Travel MLMs don't control their products. They don't set prices. Their commissions are set by the vendors. That severely limits how much they can pay out to their distributors (RTAs or whatever they want to call them). Travel MLMs cannot be lucrative without paying for recruitment, hence where the "real money" is. Because there's such a heavy reliance on recruiting, anyone and everyone is recruited which diminishes the professionalism of the industry --- and that's where our beef is with travel MLMs.
Well, I guess I'm hooked now. I just can't tear myself away from this conversation. It seems that once you get started, it's hard to just quit though I'll limit my responses to intelligent and coherent comments.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I am impressed with Ships 'N' Trips comment to the previous discussion being had with people who either didn't know how to respond to points being made or for whatever reason chose not to. Thank you for articulating your point in a clear way and without sinking to the level of some.
I definitely concede to your point about not being able to set the price of travel - this is a good and possibly a bad thing in MLM. The benefit is that RTA's won't lose customers to a competing website who is charging a lot less for the same product which is usually the problem with make-up, nutriceuticals and other products.
Considering that the commission is limited to what the vendors are willing to pay, ideally, this should motivate RTA's to sell MORE travel to increase their income. I say "ideally" because I know that considering the type of people who are usually attracted to these opportunities, this is unlikely to happen without the company putting more emphasis on the sale of travel.
As I stated in a previous post, YTB pays nothing to anyone for simply recruiting someone into the business for the purpose of network marketing. The product of a Rep (that's me) is a travel website. I sell this product to those interested in selling travel. This is where YTB can set the price as they wish and where the commission is paid from.
I definitely see the benefit of selling a different type of product such as jewelry or juice or whatever because it's more likely that a network marketing prospect will also be selling the product in addition to sponsoring more distributors.
Going back to my original post, the business model of network marketing is simply a way of getting a product or service to more people through a network of marketers or distributors. Insurance companies are a great example of this.
Perhaps I'm coming from the perspective that on that basic level, there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling travel via MLM.
I personally believe that the problem is not in the structure of the company, or the compensation plan. I have concluded that the issue lies with the methods being taught to new distributors in suggesting that they go and talk to everyone they know – that EVERYONE is in their target market. Absolutely NOTHING could be further from the truth and only those who understand this are successful in MLM.
I am here not to defend YTB per se; I am here to defend MLM and travel. In addition to these things, the only reason I even spent time reading the earlier comments is because I know and like the woman that this post so childishly made fun of.
I look forward to and will keep up with any other intellectual and factual responses to my comment.
Laura--as a Rep, your income is completely derived from the success you have in selling/renting the replicated sites. In any sales position (yes even the TTAs) people will exaggerate and bend the truth a little to get the sale. It is almost natural, but not excused. But bending and exaggerating is a bit different than an outright lie.
ReplyDeleteYou may indeed be the most honest Rep out there, and if so I applaud you. However, most of your cohorts are not and they will simply do whatever is needed to get the sale. Statistics show that once someone commits to MLM, they will hack it out for a year regardless if they make or lose money. That works to your advantage (and certainly YTB's)because you now have 12 months to replace this person and not have your income affected. But when you lose more people, your income will go down. (YTB had 138,000 RTAs less than a year ago and now are under 90,000). So the natural way to offset this is to rent more sites. But with the firestorm surrounding YTB, it is difficult and the Reps will tend to lie and fabricate things to make the sale--knowing that once closed, there is a 12 month period to replace them.
When you recruit someone do you explicitly let them know the following?:
That nearly 90% of the Reps earn no money
That the average annual income for an RTA is just under $100
That in 9 months, the number of RTAs has declined by 35%
That if you are in California, there is a chance that you personally might be named and liable in an ongoing $25 million dollar suit by the Attorney General
That due to the mismanagement of the company you will not be permitted to sell 2/3 of the worlds mass market cruise lines
That due to the mismanagement of the company you will not be able to ever issue International airline tickets unless it is done in partnership with a third party or a non-IATA approved carrier
That due to the mismanagement of the company, there is a very good chance that a $100 million dollar class action suit will put them under and you with no recourse
That as a member of the organization that your words and actions will be controlled by YTB even to the point where you are not allowed to discuss your business on any online venue other than YTB's own sites
I can go on, bu I am sure you get the picture. Hopefully, you are indeed being ethical and disclosing all of this to your recruits. If so, kudos to you. If not..well then the question I have for you is why not?
Travel Agent magazine has an article today lumping Traverus with YTB and Joystar as a scam. This should make Fireman happy.
ReplyDeleteJohn, thank you as well for your response, you've made some excellent points.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you that the people involved with YTB as with most other MLM's out there will definitely bend the truth and sometimes flat out lie to make the sale. I view this however as the fault of their sponsor, although not entirely.
YTB and most other MLM's are to blame in that again, they encourage new distributors to go and recruit just about ANYONE and insist that “it's not selling, it's sharing.” The fundamental problem with this approach is that it brings unqualified people into an industry they don’t belong in which not only cheapens the travel industry in this case, but the network marketing industry as a whole.
I do agree that the loss of some of these professional associations definitely makes it more difficult for RTA’s to sell travel. Not being an RTA myself, my main concern is for those to whom I sell my product. To be perfectly honest, I feel THAT, if anything is what would take the company down, not the lawsuit itself or the money.
If that does happen however, I would feel totally comfortable going to another travel MLM and signing up as a representative because I still feel that as a method of distributing a service, MLM is great for travel.
When I sponsor a new person, I interview them. By the time I’m ready for the credit card, I’ve determined that I’m dealing with a worthwhile business partner. I don’t give a disclaimer but I allow them the opportunity to research everything they want to about the company well beforehand. If they choose to believe everything that they read on the internet and not call me back, it’s their loss.
A person who gets discouraged by all of the points you referenced has no business being in ANY MLM company and I certainly wouldn’t sponsor them into my team. Those points are valid but would likely only concern a person who mistakenly thinks that network marketing is easy and isn’t willing to acquire the skills and knowledge it takes to be successful.
As far as the limitation on using social media, I’m actually going to be speaking with the COO, the VP of Communications and the VP of Operations (Legal and Compliance) tomorrow on this issue. Whether or not my views on the matter will change things is yet to be determined and I hope that for the sake of all involved with YTB that it does.
I don’t argue that the situation YTB is in doesn’t make it more difficult to sponsor people. This is exactly why I feel they need to be more involved with social media. As I’ve stated in previous posts, my argument is in defense of MLM and travel.
How can someone be your "business partner" when the "business" you are renting/selling them is travel and you yourself are not an RTA? Sort of seems disingenuous to me. Is your homebuilder your "worthwhile business partner" because he sold you your home? How about the car salesman?
ReplyDeleteSo you do not disclose all the pitfalls that lurk for your potential recruits and rely on them to do their own legwork--seems like a one sided "partner" to me. When I work with a Realtor, the realtor discusses the pros and the cons of buying a house. They are working for and with me.
Just does not seem so in your case! And by not disclosing, I do feel that you are indeed deceiving.
When you discuss the gag order with the powers that be, just mention that you want to be on the "look the other way" list. There are plenty of people on it and as long as you are able to consistently recruit (and get Coach his $50 a month) you should be fine. I mean after all, if they were upset about your blog, they likely would have had it pulled already, right?
Hold on John, gotta think about this one for a second.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the business that I'm selling them is NOT travel - that is the product of an RTA, not a Rep. I'm selling them a business of selling travel, not travel itself.
I don't know if I'm understanding your analogy correctly but I believe that you are suggestion that if I buy the product of a house from a realtor, we're business partners.
The situation is actually, if my realtor sold me a realty business, not a house. Same as a car dealer selling me a car dealership, not a car. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you.
I'll respond to your other points below in a following post.
The analogy is fine. You are selling a travel business. The business of the person who bought it is to sell travel.
ReplyDeleteThat person is not selling businesses (well maybe they are with YTB) so if you are in the business of selling websites and they are in the business of selling travel, why do you feel they are a "partner"? Only because you earn $50 off them and a residual?
“90% of Reps don’t make money” – Of what interest is this to a person who is in the 10% who do?
ReplyDelete“The average annual income for an RTA is just under $100” I ask the same question as above. Why would a successful person care?
“In 9 months the number of RTA’s has declined by 35%” This again is relative and would only discourage a person who sees defeat instead of success.
“If you’re in California…” This is a good point and not being in that situation currently, I don’t have a prepared response. However there are still many factors to consider. What if they’re not in California as I am not, and what if YTB wins the suit? This issue is still not applicable to every prospect that I’d be talking with.
“Due to the mismanagement of the company…mass market cruise lines” I should first say that I wasn’t aware that NCL and RCL comprised 2/3 of the worlds mass market cruise lines so I’ll definitely have to take your word on that. I ask you, who does this issue apply to? What if the person I’m interviewing wants to sell Disney Vacations exclusively as a niche? For the time being, they are still on good terms with YTB.
“Due to the mismanagement of the company…international airline tickets” Isn’t there still a way to sell international airline tickets through the YTB site?
“Due to the mismanagement of the company…$100 mil lawsuit” As I said before, I don’t believe that the money will be YTB’s downfall, but it certainly could. This is another good point but again depends on IF they lose.
“As a member of the organization…” this as I expressed earlier I am hoping will change but even if it doesn’t, people have still been successful in building network marketing businesses since many MLM companies have this same policy.
Many of your points began with “Due to the mismanagement of the company…” Is this how your realtor would inform you of the risks of buying a home with them? I certainly hope not.
All of your points are valid however, the type of person I’m willing to sponsor is one who would not be deterred by these things since many of them are “if’s” and some of them apply to the network marketing industry in general.
My business is in network marketing. When I interview potential business partners, I make sure to show them the benefit of the network marketing industry since that is my emphasis. If they choose not to sell travel business, I will still sell them a website if they are interested in buying it for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteI show them the training resources available through YTB and other travel vendors but I am not involved in helping them to sell travel since I am not selling travel myself.
Business partners to me, are people whose efforts can be leveraged to build a network of distributors for the purpose of selling travel stores to people interested in selling travel.
I fully grant that YTB’s situation does limit my prospects severely but as I believe that my prospects are limited in the first place, this does not discourage me entirely.
ReplyDeleteAgain I find myself defending my business relationship with YTB when this blog is supposedly about MLM and Travel. As I have said many times in this discussion, I feel that YTB has made some big mistakes but I also believe that they will recover and we’ll just have to see.
If people have a problem with my decision to stay, I would simply ask that they respect that decision knowing that I am fully aware of the issues surrounding the company. Don’t worry, I have no intention on going “down with the ship” if that’s what it comes to.
I would really like to understand and discuss why it is that MLM and Travel don’t mix.
Actually, on second thought, I'm going to try to quit cold turkey here.
ReplyDeleteI definitely appreciate discussing this issue with sharp individuals who make points of substance. As all can see, I have a lot to say on this subject but I suspect people are getting tired of hearing it as I am certainly getting tired of writing it.
I'll do my best to stay away from this blog for now and as A Real Travel Pro requested, I might come back in six months or so and let you all know how I'm doing...or maybe not...
I'm sure that everyone here is anxiously awaiting YTB's trial this year and the outcome will start a whole new cycle of...whatever.
I do hope that all the travel professionals who have contributed to this post might consider that there just might be other ways of selling travel out there. I'm not necessarily referring to YTB. However, to keep so closed-minded about this subject is to shut the door on a potential opportunity without having a good understanding of what my industry (MLM) is all about.
For those who are very knowledgeable about the MLM industry and still choose to work their business alternatively, I applaud and respect them, for they at least have made an informed choice.
What this forum has shown me is that many of the people posting here have a deep understanding of the travel industry but seem to have very little knowledge of the network marketing industry. Having said that, to write a blog posing as some sort of expert on this subject is inappropriate and misleading.
I sincerely hope that everyone here is able to get over their issues with YTB since it is really of very little consequence in the long run what happens to the company. Travel will go on no matter what and I see that THAT is the real focus here.
Good luck everyone!