- We are poised to enter 50 countries around the world next year.
- Traditional travel agencies will be going out of business like they did in the 90's.
- Joining World Ventures you have 0 overhead.
- 100% positive cash flow with zero liability.
- Endorsed by many prominent people & celebrities alike
- #1 Travel Agency for Carnival Cruise Lines.
No, it's not YTB. It's the New Kid in Town. Or, should I say old Kid in Town since they have been around for awhile. World Ventures. Same song, different tune.You pay $400 to join to point people to book travel to on your website. There is a monthly fee just like YTB and if you sign up 6 people they waive the monthly fee. Most of the money is made in recruiting your friends, family, co-workers and neighbors.
So, just who and what is World Ventures? And, why should we care? According to Peter Stilphen, MCC, World Ventures is indeed a travel MLM and on his naughty list. Mike Azcue and Wayne Nugent founded World Ventures after being involved in another MLM called GTT. World Ventures income figures released in 2007 show only 26.3% of the people made money. The average income was only $200. Sounding familiar again? Seeing a pattern?
And, when you question the figures and say anything about the company the flock rises up and tells you we (TTA's) are jealous, going to be extinct and they are going to take over the world. Big sigh. Here we go again.
What is it with people believing this stuff? Is it because of low self esteem? Wanting to be rich? Lured by greed? Or, is it that travel is sexy and fun? I am sure psychologists and cult specialists could enlighten us all day on the motivation of people to join these companies. But, the bottom line is they hurt the travel industry. Last count I saw was upward of 55,000 untrained World Ventures reps running around passing themselves off as travel agents to the consumer. This hurts all of us.
The sad thing is once one MLM goes away there are more awaiting in the wings with the promise of riches and the lure of easy money and traveling like the pros. If you are as fed up as I am here is the petition to sign asking for regulation of the MLM's.
It took a guest writer to mention another company. Interesting.
ReplyDelete"What is it with people believing this stuff? Is it because of low self esteem? Wanting to be rich? Lured by greed?"
It's also interesting how the writer (along with most of the rest of the posse) like's to label people they disagree with or don't understand as "greedy" or having "low self-esteem". That's usually the M.O. of the posse: Make the people they disagree with lower than themselves. There's a saying from Brian Klemmer that says "We blame others because their short comings justify our failure to improve".
I believe the TTA's of this site could go a lot further in their cause if #1. They actually took the time to actually understand the business model of the MLM's. That would mean using an open mind to actually understand it without all their preconceived ideas from the negative they have read and made up. End they end they may not agree it's for them but maybe they would see things totally different #2. Actually offered up solutions that help rather than tear down. They may find that they could make a bigger impact on the industry if they actually searched for a win/win solution. Rather they are hell bent on the destruction of others in order to further their cause. #3. Actually saw the people involved with MLM (though they may disagree) as people. Not as the names they like to label people. I mean what is a "waste of skin" anyway? It's not like it's a tree or a car that everyone recognizes as such. It's an opinion. And when terms like that are used, the person using it somehow thinks they are different. More human or moral perhaps. It doesn't take a psychologist to see the fallacy in that.
It would be interesting to see if there is but ONE TTA out there that would be willing to take the antithesis approach to the TTA's on this sites authors in order to find a win/win solution to many of the concerns. Because I can just about guarantee you that even if the MLM's of travel were gone, the travel industry would still be feeling pain they feel. They just have put the blame on someone other than themselves at this point.
No firemedic, other companies are mentioned in this blog. Even yesterday's post mentioned several.
ReplyDeleteHere is an alternative solution for you. How about the MLM agencies such as YTB, Traverus, GTI, World Ventures, et al learn a little something about the industry they purport to be in? Doesn't that make sense?
I mean if you are going to be a butcher, maybe you ought to learn a little bit about cows. If you are going to be a jeweler, learn a little bit about jewelry. Now when I say a little, I am meaning something more than just the desire to make money off the industry.
"No firemedic, other companies are mentioned in this blog. Even yesterday's post mentioned several."
ReplyDeleteThat's a joke John. Even the captions below your title says YTB. The ONLY reason any other company was mentioned yesterday was because of the mileage you got the day before. Otherwise this site is about YTB and your obsession with them and everyone that follows the blog knows it.
"Now when I say a little, I am meaning something more than just the desire to make money off the industry."
So I guess you and the rest of the TTA's are in the travel industry without the desire to make any money at it?
There goes the LCD theory again. Yes, we are all in it to make a profit. My comment was in regards to learning about the industry. If you read it carefully, you will see that.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, there is more to being in the industry than JUST making money.
"And yes, there is more to being in the industry than JUST making money."
ReplyDeleteAnd so the same goes for MLM. There is more to it than making money. If you actually KNEW the MLM business model, rather than KNOWING ABOUT it and adding your assumptions, you might understand a bit more.
"Here is an alternative solution for you. How about the MLM agencies such as YTB, Traverus, GTI, World Ventures, et al learn a little something about the industry they purport to be in? Doesn't that make sense?"
And so you can become Travel Weekly's #26 largest seller of travel without knowing anything about that industry. Hmmmmm.
"even if the MLM's of travel were gone, the travel industry would still be feeling pain they feel. They just have put the blame on someone other than themselves at this point."
ReplyDeleteAnd exactly what "pain" are you referring to????
"And exactly what "pain" are you referring to????"
ReplyDeleteI refer you to John's title caption: "Explore why MLM companies are not only a bad idea for the travel industry, but perhaps one of the leading indicators of the decline of the travel industry!"
John doesn't say "the" leading indicator but "one of the". So I guess you need to ask him what all the others are. Also I refer you to the reason there are thousands and thousands of TTA's out of business in the last 10-15 years. The internet. (Thank Al Gore for that one!)
Firemedic--I'd like to point out that there are a confirmed 46,000 RTAs out of business in the last 6 months. There are likely many more than that. Remember, most earn nothing.
ReplyDeleteHow do you address that?
Again firemedic you don't know what you are talking about.
ReplyDelete"The Internet was originally developed by DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, as a means to share information on defense research between involved universities and defense research facilities. Originally it was just email and FTP sites as well as the Usenet where scientists could question and answer each other. It was originally called ARPANET (Advanced Research Projects Agency NETwork). The concept was developed starting in 1964, and the first messages passed were between UCLA and the Stanford Research Institute in 1969. Leonard Kleinrock of MIT had published the first paper on packet switching theory in 1961. Since networking computers was new to begin with, standards were being developed on the fly. Once the concept was proven, the organizations involved started to lay out some ground rules for standardization.
One of the most important was the communications protocol, TCP/IP, developed by Vint Cerf and Robert Kahn in 1974. Robert Metcalfe is credited with Ethernet which is the basic communication standard in networked computers.
Tim Berners-Lee perhaps specified technological applicability and / or linguistic construction of HTML while working at CERN, is chiefly credited for the ease of use and wide public adoption of the web. Here is his website: w3.org
Al Gore really did have a substantial part in the US legal framework and governmental issues related to the internet He never said he invented it.
There wasn't just ONE person that invented the internet. The internet is just a way to view files and information that someone puts onto a server. The internet is just a way to access the information.
Although there's a guy named Leonard Kleinrock who was the first person to write a paper on the idea of packet switching which is essential for internet to work. He wrote this idea in 1961.
And here are a couple more people that were essential to what we call internet today without these guys there wouldn't be The Internet.
Larry G. Roberts created the first functioning long-distance computer networks in 1965 and designed the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), the seed from which the modern Internet grew, in 1966.
Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf invented the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) which moves data on the modern Internet, in 1972 and 1973. If any two people "invented the Internet," it was Kahn and Cerf - but they have publicily stated that "no one person or group of people" invented the Internet.
Radia Perlman invented the spanning tree algorithm in the 1980s. Her spanning tree algorithm allows efficient bridging between separate networks. Without a good bridging solution, large-scale networks like the Internet would be impractical."
And, firemedic the reason why MLM's are bad for the travel industry is because you don't know travel, don't profess to know travel and are only in it to make a buck off of your downline.
I agree with you that World Ventures is a sorry hosting agency, and I have proclaimed it several times on scam.com, but got no support and was vastly outnumbered by both the traditional agents and World Venture agents taking sides against me.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you dig into the details just how bad World Ventures is. Get under the hood and see what kind of engine is running their vehicle. What direction is their vehicle going and what is their destination. It's like those flood damaged cars sold by used car dealers. You can't see the inside the grimy engine because it gets covered up by a pretty paint job, and it won't take you very far before it breaks down.
Supposedly, my argument isn't strong enough. Maybe you can show me how to do it better.
Real Travel Whatever - Thank you so much for the exhaustive post on the internet history. But just for the record since you didn't seem to catch on....the Al Gore comment was a bit of sarcasm.
ReplyDelete"And, firemedic the reason why MLM's are bad for the travel industry is because you don't know travel, don't profess to know travel and are only in it to make a buck off of your downline."
Oh, Okay there Real Travel Whatever. Again, I guess you can become Travel Weekly's #26 knowing nothing, professing to know nothing, and only making money off downlines!
Oh, and Al Gore said he "took the initiative in creating the internet". I'm conservative and I knew that his comment was getting blown out of proportion. But it would have happened the same way (if not worse) had a Republican said it.
ReplyDelete"Travel Weekly's #26 knowing nothing, professing to know nothing, and only making money off downlines!"
ReplyDeleteRegarding TW's #26 it was questioned if the flowers, tents and cars were lumped into those figures and surprise, surprise no one could give an answer. Given the number of reps/rtas you have that figure is pathetic. Again, you know nothing about economics or Math. LOL!
Plenty more agencies that bested you with less people. YTB claims it is #1 with Carnival and again a falsehood.
Arguing with you is pointless. It's like talking to a 2 year old. I can't wait until YTB implodes and I can say I told you so.
If TW had used travel sales from ONLY the RTAs YTB would not have made the PL.
ReplyDelete205mill of sales attributed to YTB are from agents working with VacationCentral as their host. Vacation Central is a standard host agency. Not an MLM. I believe they came with the purchase of Rez connect.
firemedic,
ReplyDeleteThe internet is not hurting travel agents...Expedia, et al actually ARE travel agents with TRAINED travel professionals to help customers, also a lot of travel agencies are present on the internet these days (very few aren't).
Many travel agencies (referring to B&M store frongs) went out of business when airlines stopped paying commissions or after 9/11. Not directly because of the internet.
As far as a leading indicator of the decline of the travel industry, we refer to the unprofessionalism demonstrated by MLM agent-wannabes, and the damage they are doing to THE REPUTATION OF THE INDUSTRY, not fiscal damage. Even in this economy many of us are seeing an uptick in bookings, or at least are maintaining the same levels. We haven't seen catastrophic drops in bookings. But we do have to adapt to changes in order to remain strong (like those agents that survived airline zero commissions and 9/11).
Firemedic said, "It would be interesting to see if there is but ONE TTA out there that would be willing to take the antithesis approach to the TTA's on this sites authors in order to find a win/win solution to many of the concerns."
ReplyDeleteHello....
I have previously proposed a win/win solution.
MLM travel is okay, if:
1) There are no bonuses based purely on recruiting. It is okay for someone to earn a percentage of downline travel commissions earned. This is really no different than a host agency having independent contractors.
2) Agents were trained, acted professionally, and otherwise represented the best interests of their clients, and provided the service expected of a travel agent.
My thesis has been repeatedly rejected because of my point #1. If there are no recruiting bonuses paid out from the sign-up fees, then why bother joining? It is the Ponzi scheme part of MLM that is so objectionable.
Anyway, there is at leasr one TTA has put forth an idea for win/win. Let's see if anybody agrees with my solution, or if all the MLMer's continue to reject it out of hand.
Steve Mencik said...
ReplyDeleteFiremedic said, "It would be interesting to see if there is but ONE TTA out there that would be willing to take the antithesis approach to the TTA's on this sites authors in order to find a win/win solution to many of the concerns."
Hello....
I have previously proposed a win/win solution.
MLM travel is okay, if:
1) There are no bonuses based purely on recruiting. It is okay for someone to earn a percentage of downline travel commissions earned. This is really no different than a host agency having independent contractors.
2) Agents were trained, acted professionally, and otherwise represented the best interests of their clients, and provided the service expected of a travel agent.
My thesis has been repeatedly rejected because of my point #1. If there are no recruiting bonuses paid out from the sign-up fees, then why bother joining? It is the Ponzi scheme part of MLM that is so objectionable.
Anyway, there is at leasr one TTA has put forth an idea for win/win. Let's see if anybody agrees with my solution, or if all the MLMer's continue to reject it out of hand.
************************************************
Thank you Steve. It's very interesting that I also would love to see some type of concessions that would provide a win-win solution for the travel industry at large.
When I did a post about working together to find a win-win solution, I was totally accused of STILL being on YTB's side and supporting YTB.
Why is it that I cannot assist with a solution for the travel MLMs - NOT YTB - when I know something about both sides of the fence.....just like anyone else?? I guess that comes in the transition. But it is certainly frustrating.
Again, I am happy where I am and doing what I'm doing, but I also KNOW about the MLM - unfortunately. What better resource would there be??
Also, I think the problem with Steve's #1 is that it totally impossible to focus on booking AND recruiting. I tried it for 3 years. I would basically do recruiting in spurts, but the travel suffered. If I focused on travel, the recruiting suffered.
ReplyDeleteIt would definitely be wise to separate positions. You should NOT be able to be a Referring Travel Agent AND a Marketing Rep simultaneously, but that's what happens.
Firejerk - Is there anything that will make you happy about this blog? It seems that you're passionate about bashing John every single day over every single post. Now had he or a guest commentator posted about TraVerus, I'm sure you would have been so thrilled you would have wet your chair.
ReplyDeleteI really only have a couple of simple questions for you. Do you sell travel or just live off of the pimpings from your recruits? If you sell travel, approximately what percent of your YTB income is from travel commissions compared to your pimping and recruiting?
Denyse - The positions are separate. Personally I would like to see them together and residuals paid on the travel like the host agencies Steve is talking about. And I totally agree on the training. The more the better. However I don't see a problem with earning bonuses either. There is a place near my home town that does clinical studies and when one of the participants refers someone else to a study the person making the referral gets a bonus. That is for each and every one they refer.
ReplyDeleteAnd Steve is just about one of the only TTA's on this site that "acts professionally (in Steve's #2 point)" or at least stands out because of the way he conducts himself. I wish more of the TTA's on this site would take his lead.
firemedic said...
ReplyDeleteDenyse - The positions are separate. Personally I would like to see them together and residuals paid on the travel like the host agencies
*******************************************
Firemedic, I mean NOT being able to do both. You can sign up to be:
1. JUST a Marketing REP
2. An RTA only
3. An RTA AND Marketing Rep
How many people sign up to be JUST an RTA? I don't think too many do this. There should not be that option. Become EITHER an RTA OR a REP.
Rod's Travels - I know you've read all of my comments on scam.com about WV. As bad as it is, it's still better than YTB. Why? Because they offer DreamTrips that sometimes are much less than the average consumer could purchase them for. They also had the condo deal way before YTB started selling those crappy certificates plus their website search engine is far superior to YTB's. WV hasn't had nearly the amount of failed ventures like the Fly Free, China Olympics fiasco, and they don't sell dildos or all of the other junk on their websites. Are they any good? Of course not but you don't see them being sued and you don't see all the bad publicity as YTB garners. I will also bet that they will still be around when YTB is shut down. Then hopefully the rest of the travel MLMs will follow unless they all change their mode of operation.
ReplyDeleteNMH - You are wrong about Traverus. If I had found WV writing the crap that Traverus does I would have called them out also. I just don't see it like Traverus. And I am not unhappy about this blog. It doesn't have that much control over me. I am not passionate about bashing John. I am only debating what John spins. (I too have a touch of the flu so that is why I have had so much time to comment the last couple of days.) I don't debate John on every single post because most of them I just have to shake my head. I don't dislike John nor you NMH. I just disagree with your spins on YTB. I would love to have to opportunity to sit down with John over a beer and talk about this and I feel that we could probably find way more in common than what we differ on. It's just on this blog that one would think that real enemies are created and I don't believe that to be true. Like I said about Steve. I think it would behoove many of the TTA's on this site to follow his lead on how not to get some emotionally involved, forgetting that we are actually dealing with human beings much like ourselves. I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect in this.
ReplyDeleteYou know what's wrong over at World Ventures? They don't have Traveling Mom. Think of how much better they would be if only they had her....
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the changes that Menick suggested, I think there should be a ban on claiming that God endorses your MLM, and claiming that you earn $10,000 a week and go to Disney for free 6 times a year.
Denyse - Did you include that as one of your suggestions in the other blog? I hope so.
ReplyDeleteThere's another blog? Wow, who knew?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the no recruiting aspect. Recruiters seem only to care if your blood is warm and the check won't bounce. They could care less if the prospect ever sells a dime of travel cause that is not where the money is.
firemedic said...
ReplyDeleteDenyse - Did you include that as one of your suggestions in the other blog? I hope so.
***********************************************
Actually no. I'm already accused of still beating the YTB drum!!
"It doesn't have that much control over me."
ReplyDeleteReally, then why the heck are you posting on it all day? Let's not forget Tripso.
"I don't dislike John nor you NMH,"
Right. Let's face it you hate all of us because gosh darn one of your little recruits might actually listen to us and walk away from you. You are threatened by us. That is why you are on here and every other blog constantly. Defending your turf. Your income and your down line.
"I think it would behoove many of the TTA's on this site to follow his lead on how not to get some emotionally involved,"
When we got a little pissant like you spouting off all the time who can't comprehend simple Math or the fact he is in a company that is being sued and being cut off from suppliers no wonder we get emotionally involved. We are also defending an industry that you don't seem to know or care about. When was the last time you personally sold anything travel related without pointing someone to a website????? How much TRAVEL COMMISSION did you earn last month? From selling travel personally NOT directing people to your canned site?
And, your bashing Traverus is not emotional??? ROTFLMAO. That is too funny. Let's bring all the Traverus people you have bashed and ask them their opinion.
I think I am going to go down and buy me a firefighter hat, uniform and badge, a scanner and start making fire runs. What the heck. It's not rocket science is it? After all if your untrained, uneducated butt can sell travel my uneducated butt can be a firefighter and fight fires.
I already know your answer to this..."whatever." Just like a sulky teenager. That's you.
You know, I know how to drive a truck and use a fire extinquisher. Maybe I'll be a fireman too.
ReplyDeleteFiremedic - You failed to answer my two questions.
ReplyDeleteHey I helped rescue my neighbor from her home when she dropped a frying pan on the floor that she left on the stove too long. There was a lot of smoke and caused slight smoke inhalation....and I called the fire dept for her. I should get a fireman job EEEASSY.
ReplyDeletereading these blogs...firemedic won't answer. He never does but comes back with some witty comment though! Good luck with that!
ReplyDeleteReal Travel Whatever - You are right. Whatever. Just like NMH, I will let the character in your words speak for themselves. Again, you should take lessons from Steve. I don't hate anyone. I disagree with you but I don't hate you. But you sure have got me all figured out! (Sigh)
ReplyDeleteI know. It's because firemedic doesn't want to admit what we already know. It's the MLM way. Build downlines and live off of other's earnings, aka pimping. I wonder if he has one of those Huggy Bear hats from the old Starsky and Hutch series? I'm sure he has some platform fireboots. I'm also sure he doesn't receive enough in travel commissions to buy a Big Mac.
ReplyDeleteCan we do something about the AWFUL VIBRANT BLUE?
ReplyDeleteIt clashes with the Grey background.
Somebody must be color-blind to have chosen this scheme...
NO Hoots for today's POST... it's too hard on the eyes.
I noticed it too and did not know what happened. I will be checking the colors in the template now.
ReplyDelete"Real Travel Whatever -"
ReplyDeleteROTFLMAO. How old are you firemedic 16? Baaaaahhhhhhh!
Hey Kate and Travel let's start our own fire dept! We don't need NO stinkin training. We could call it YFB-Your Fire Business. And, we can get people to sign up for $499 and $50 a month and make them buy a siren, badge and fire extinguisher from us at a big mark up. Sell training videos and have a big conference. Maybe we could get Coach to donate the Statue of Liberty and set fire to it and put it out!
You are asking me if I am 16 and you write
ReplyDelete"ROTFLMAO. How old are you firemedic 16? Baaaaahhhhhhh"?
Good point FM
ReplyDeleteOh please firemedic every time I say something to you you answer me back "whatever." That's what teenagers say. As to my laughing sorry I could not help myself.
ReplyDeleteAs to the good point comment IMO he does not deserve any points.